Route Development & Rumours

[Ray Finkle]

I agree. You can have the best product on the market but unless you can tell people it's pretty much useless. That's probably why advertising is so very expensive. Brum X also has a good point about advertising at the other end of the routes. From speaking to people recently returned from Australia, Qatar had some good publicity about their new Birmingham service. The New York Times have also ran several very complimentary articles about Birmingham.

Another thing to consider is getting a route is one thing but having it at a time and date that people want to use it is another.

Take Florida. My kids are approaching the age where we're considering taking them to Orlando. The only flight from Birmingham leaves on a Thursday, totally useless if the kids break up from school on a Friday. A week is too short and there is no option for a 10 day break.

The options I have are a connection via NYC or a drive to Gatwick. Mrs Finkle prefers the latter and I can see why. It must be outrageous how many pax are leaked elsewhere to this one destination alone.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

And for the same reason Ray.

Wifey and I used to go to the Greek islands a lot. The destinations were only available from Gatwick or Manchester at the time.

I have a relative who lived in Cheshire at the time and we used to spend a lot of time there, so it was a no brainer to go from Manchester and enjoy the hostelries of Frodsham before we went away.

 

[nwoody2001]

...don't we have a 'viewing area' thread already?!

 

[Brum X]

...don't we have a 'viewing area' thread already?!

I think nwoody is being polite and requesting that we GET BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE

 

[Brum X]

As for Ray planning his trip to Orlando, i think he will need to try harder to sell the merits of flying from his local airport of BHX and going via JFK/EWR. Just think of all those great shops in Newark or JFK that Mrs Finkle could walk around for hours and hours whilst waiting for there connecting flight. This has gotta be better than driving down to LGW. Also im not one for promoting MAN, but surely this has gotta be a better option than LGW ???

Anyway by the time you want to go to florida, hopefully we might have some more choice to Florida from BHX. Then Mrs Finkle can shop away in the new World Duty Free at BHX

 

[Ray Finkle]

Viewing are discussions can continue HERE

And for the same reason Ray.

Wifey and I used to go to the Greek islands a lot. The destinations were only available from Gatwick or Manchester at the time.

I have a relative who lived in Cheshire at the time and we used to spend a lot of time there, so it was a no brainer to go from Manchester and enjoy the hostelries of Frodsham before we went away.

It goes to show just what a huge job the airport have got on their hands, even to educate just the locals. Unfortunately, after years of stagnation, it's a situation that the current administration have inherited and changing human behaviour takes a long time.

If the routes/frequencies aren't there then people won't use the airport, if people don't use the airport then the routes/frequencies won't be there.

Great strides forward have been made in the last 18 months or so but the job has only just started, there's still a long, long way to go.

 

[Ray Finkle]

As for Ray planning his trip to Orlando, i think he will need to try harder to sell the merits of flying from his local airport of BHX and going via JFK/EWR. Just think of all those great shops in Newark or JFK that Mrs Finkle could walk around for hours and hours whilst waiting for there connecting flight. This has gotta be better than driving down to LGW. Also im not one for promoting MAN, but surely this has gotta be a better option than LGW ???

Anyway by the time you want to go to florida, hopefully we might have some more choice to Florida from BHX. Then Mrs Finkle can shop away in the new World Duty Free at BHX

As far as she's concerned spending 5 hours in a NY airport terminal with two young children is less appealing than a comfortable hotel room followed by a direct flight. I can see her point.

Her exact words to me were "why can't we fly direct?" I explained that there is only one flight per week and it's on a Thursday. Her reply was disbelief that there is only one flight per week to such a popular destination, commenting "what good is that, on a Thursday?" The conversation ended with her saying "I guess we'll just have to go from London then."

Obviously I know the in's and out's of what's available from BHX and will tailor our trip accordingly. Mrs Finkle has no interest in such matters, as do a huge portion of the travelling public, I'm just trying to give an idea of the way they think.

 

[Brum X]

As far as she's concerned spending 5 hours in a NY airport terminal with two young children is less appealing than a comfortable hotel room followed by a direct flight. I can see her point.

Her exact words to me were "why can't we fly direct?" I explained that there is only one flight per week and it's on a Thursday. Her reply was disbelief that there is only one flight per week to such a popular destination, commenting "what good is that, on a Thursday?" The conversation ended with her saying "I guess we'll just have to go from London then."

Obviously I know the in's and out's of what's available from BHX and will tailor our trip accordingly. Mrs Finkle has no interest in such matters, as do a huge portion of the travelling public, I'm just trying to give an idea of the way they think.

Yeah i suppose that makes sense.

I would send those exact words via email to the route devlopment team at BHX. They really need to get working on this one, im really frustrated with this one and i know you are.

You make a really good point about the Thursday flight, having one flight per week is one thing but having that flight on a Thursday is also a big thing and needs to be addressed. Schools are becoming more and more "harsh" when it comes to pupils not being at school even if its just a couple of days and companies like Thomson need to realise this especially when they do come across as being quite family friendly and overall a good strong brand.

Maybe in the future they could ammend there schedule at BHX, especially the florida flight to a saturday ??

 

[Ray Finkle]

The issue for Thomson is that they then would have to move another long haul destination to a Thursday, that may be one that gives them higher yields. They also have other airports to consider, for instance the S17 timetable briefly appeared and showed that Bristol regained Cancun and Orlando, on a Saturday and Sunday. They obviously feel that there is a larger benefit for them there than adding two extra flights to Birmingham.

It's why I think we need another player in this market as Thomson have this one all to themselves. Just look at what creating a bit of competition has done elsewhere.

 

[thunderchild]

The EMA flight is on a Sunday if that's any help!

 

[ca4]

Would that new VS Flybe codeshare be any use to you? Is it via Glasgow from BHX?

 

[DaveBham]

I agree. You can have the best product on the market but unless you can tell people it's pretty much useless. That's probably why advertising is so very expensive. Brum X also has a good point about advertising at the other end of the routes. From speaking to people recently returned from Australia, Qatar had some good publicity about their new Birmingham service. The New York Times have also ran several very complimentary articles about Birmingham.

Another thing to consider is getting a route is one thing but having it at a time and date that people want to use it is another.

Take Florida. My kids are approaching the age where we're considering taking them to Orlando. The only flight from Birmingham leaves on a Thursday, totally useless if the kids break up from school on a Friday. A week is too short and there is no option for a 10 day break.

The options I have are a connection via NYC or a drive to Gatwick. Mrs Finkle prefers the latter and I can see why. It must be outrageous how many pax are leaked elsewhere to this one destination alone.

The issue for Thomson is that they then would have to move another long haul destination to a Thursday, that may be one that gives them higher yields. They also have other airports to consider, for instance the S17 timetable briefly appeared and showed that Bristol regained Cancun and Orlando, on a Saturday and Sunday. They obviously feel that there is a larger benefit for them there than adding two extra flights to Birmingham.

It's why I think we need another player in this market as Thomson have this one all to themselves. Just look at what creating a bit of competition has done elsewhere.

Totally agree. Flights from JFK to Orlando are every 1 1/2 to 2hrs though, and every 1 1/2 hours from EWR, so you wouldn't have to wait that long at all.

 

[Brum X]

The issue for Thomson is that they then would have to move another long haul destination to a Thursday, that may be one that gives them higher yields. They also have other airports to consider, for instance the S17 timetable briefly appeared and showed that Bristol regained Cancun and Orlando, on a Saturday and Sunday. They obviously feel that there is a larger benefit for them there than adding two extra flights to Birmingham.

It's why I think we need another player in this market as Thomson have this one all to themselves. Just look at what creating a bit of competition has done elsewhere.

Do Bristol have the Orlando and Cancun for S17 ???

 

[Ray Finkle]

When Thomson's S17 briefly appeared BRS gained a weekly CUN and MCO whilst BHX gained a second weekly Punta Cana.

It's only showing up to April again now so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, correct me if I'm wrong, but according to Wikipedia, it states that Birmingham only has five airlines based there - ie - flybe, monarch, Ryanair, Thomas Cook and Thomson. If other airlines such as Turkish Airlines, air France, emirates, eurowings, klm, lufthansa, p I a, Scandinavian airlines, United Airlines, American Airlines, so why are these other ten listed airlines not based at Birmingham at all, surely by the above non based airlines been based at Birmingham would help with further expansion of routes and also help the route development team to have an updated list of all current based airlines when trying to attract more airlines to fly from Birmingham, by showing an up to date list for potential airlines, when encouraging them to use Birmingham, then future potential carriers would then know whos based at the airport and who also currently flies from Birmingham, because when you're trying to sell your product out there to the outside world, it's also like trying to apply for a job, your cv is a sales brochure, telling a future employer of what you can do, so the same would be for the airport, letting potential carriers know who currently is based there, and where they already fly and serve, to where they don't fly or serve. So let's hopefully this is what the routes development team are doing, if not, should be doing.... Andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

Those airlines listed fly in to and out of Birmingham from their respective hubs in IST, CDG, DXB, EWR, JFK.......rather than having an aircraft 'based'. It means that they can then offer a whole range of connections through that hub.

Being 'based' isn't the be all and end all, we have the likes of Norwegian, Wizz and Vueling all offering a range of flights from aircraft based elsewhere. Sometimes that can be better than a based aircraft as it utilises the quieter periods of the day.

I'm sure the route development team have all of the information to hand when they go about their business. In any case we should hopefully be hearing about another based airline in the near future

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, would that airline be do you think jet2 at all, or do you have any ideas who you think it might be...Andyc

 

[jfy1999]

When Thomson's S17 briefly appeared BRS gained a weekly CUN and MCO whilst BHX gained a second weekly Punta Cana.

It's only showing up to April again now so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Hopefully they're making amendments to the timetable. As things stand the 787's winter schedule is looking a lot healthier than the summer. There were rumours of a 787 doing short haul last summer than never came to fruition, what would it take for that to happen?

By the way, Thomson fly to SFB, not MCO.

 

[JENNYJET]

Gentlemen, perhaps it is time for the 'Suits' upstairs decided what they want from the airport, heavy on scheduled traffic such as LHR or heavy with charter and leisure traffic.

I have been following the chatter about adding to frequencies and routes to the Med and similar east coast US but other airports are already established in those markets. Do we really want Jet2 or more Ryanair?

My vision is for Birmingham to mix the business markets with the leisure sector and encourage existing and new carriers to consider a mixed market.

I recall US Airways and the Philly route, Continental with twice daily to Newark but have yet to get a sniff of Washington, business and tourism?

A route serving Atlanta directly can cover business but offer tourist connections to New Orleans etc...

When the new extended runway was proposed, I had visions of routes to Cape Town, Singapore, HONG KONG and similar services currently offered by the charter carriers via Gatwick and Manchester.

Now that some airlines are waking up to the capabilities that Birmingham offers when they are desperate to land somewhere when Heathrow cannot accommodate perhaps the time shall come when as I have previously mooted, the likes of BA, Norwegian, Virgin, SAA have managed to land, disembark and reposition to London with seemingly no bother at all considering they all used smaller aircraft than our A380!!

My vision? To see Sri Lankan, Garuda, Kenya Airways, and let us be bold, Japan Airlines, ANA, China Airlines ( Taiwan ) , Jet Airways ( Mumbai ) a mix of business and leisure on one route.

Birmingham chiefs boast about available capacity but honestly, Vueling, Ryanair, Flybe and the likes of TUI and Thomas Cook? Is this what BHX needs and deserves today?

 

[JENNYJET]

Correction to the via Gatwick and Manchester bit, I meant currently served by those people.Apologies!