thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Official announcement due in September so we'll wait and see what happens.
Official announcement due in September so we'll wait and see what happens.
Birmingham: New Route Development & Rumours
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Brum X
Elite Pro-Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Air France, DONT DO IT.
Lufthansa (Germanwings) anybody ????????
BHX is one of your loyal customers, we want and deserve Air France, not some downsized locost version.
user001 said:
Air France, DONT DO IT.
Lufthansa (Germanwings) anybody ????????
BHX is one of your loyal customers, we want and deserve Air France, not some downsized locost version.
U
User0001
Guest
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
The plan is currently out to consultation with the unions, so, we will have to wait until they have their say before plans are finalised.
Basically, core routes from CDG will remain Air France. For the UK, these routes are LHR and MAN. (Core routes for AF are considered capital cities or routes to which volumes necessitate the regular use of A321's).
All other routes to the UK are non-core, so will switch to HOP! or Transavia, as mentioned above.
The plan is currently out to consultation with the unions, so, we will have to wait until they have their say before plans are finalised.
Basically, core routes from CDG will remain Air France. For the UK, these routes are LHR and MAN. (Core routes for AF are considered capital cities or routes to which volumes necessitate the regular use of A321's).
All other routes to the UK are non-core, so will switch to HOP! or Transavia, as mentioned above.
U
User0001
Guest
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I don't think its wise to keep bombarding Paul Kehoe with emails.
Firstly, some of the questions are a nature you know for a fact he cannot answer. Secondly, if he keeps seeing emails that 'criticise' his airport, he may choose to ignore future correspondence, or, set his email to private and then we loose a link to answers you may seek.
I don't think its wise to keep bombarding Paul Kehoe with emails.
Firstly, some of the questions are a nature you know for a fact he cannot answer. Secondly, if he keeps seeing emails that 'criticise' his airport, he may choose to ignore future correspondence, or, set his email to private and then we loose a link to answers you may seek.
- Moderator
- #405
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Lets just say my email was structured slightly differently and was geared more towards asking honest questions rather than making accusations. Still no reply from the Route Development squad though.
There is no way he could or would let slip anything under discussion until it's confirmed, but to be honest, Air India going daily aside, I can't see anything at all on the horizon :sad:
Hassaan13 said:
Lets just say my email was structured slightly differently and was geared more towards asking honest questions rather than making accusations. Still no reply from the Route Development squad though.
Hassaan13 said:
There is no way he could or would let slip anything under discussion until it's confirmed, but to be honest, Air India going daily aside, I can't see anything at all on the horizon :sad:
Brummiegem
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I can't see anything on the horizon either.In fact it would be interesting to hear Mr Kehoes thoughts on the news that Hainan are looking to start flights to MAN.No one saw that coming!!!
I have to admit that I am a bit confused with the Chinese situation.Is the air services agreement to be changed or not.Also if Hainan start flights where does that leave Air China who we are led to believe are also looking at MAN???
With the exception of AI who seem to be going from strength to strength and the TOM/TCX offerings and of course FlyBe and Icelandair there is very little else in the pipeline.
MON appear to be downsizing and seem to be experiencing some turbulence,so to speak.
It is not all doom and gloom of course but I am sure most of us are still hoping for something to be announced before the end of the year,but overall it has been very disappointing in terms of new routes and airlines.
All that said it would appear that the services that we do have established @ BHX are doing well with record numbers passing through this summer,which proves the demand is there.
My fingers are still crossed that something may still happen 🙂
I can't see anything on the horizon either.In fact it would be interesting to hear Mr Kehoes thoughts on the news that Hainan are looking to start flights to MAN.No one saw that coming!!!
I have to admit that I am a bit confused with the Chinese situation.Is the air services agreement to be changed or not.Also if Hainan start flights where does that leave Air China who we are led to believe are also looking at MAN???
With the exception of AI who seem to be going from strength to strength and the TOM/TCX offerings and of course FlyBe and Icelandair there is very little else in the pipeline.
MON appear to be downsizing and seem to be experiencing some turbulence,so to speak.
It is not all doom and gloom of course but I am sure most of us are still hoping for something to be announced before the end of the year,but overall it has been very disappointing in terms of new routes and airlines.
All that said it would appear that the services that we do have established @ BHX are doing well with record numbers passing through this summer,which proves the demand is there.
My fingers are still crossed that something may still happen 🙂
- Moderator
- #407
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
It's definitely on to be a good year pax wise but I'm struggling to see how the growth will continue into 2015 considering we won't have the massive Flybe expansion that we've seen this year. I've been trying to think of potential new arrivals but I'm struggling.
Long Haul:
West:
United - They have a solid daily operation with, I'm told, contracts in place for business pax and cargo, combine that with some of the eye watering fares they offer at times and I'd say the route makes money. Twice daily was tried and the fares dropped significantly, no doubt destroying the yields, so we're back to daily. Will they try double daily again or give ORD a go, I seriously doubt it?
Delta - Just announced a whole load of expansion from LHR and will see the Greater Birmingham area within that catchment area, add to that the reintroduction of JFK from MAN and you have to ask why they'd go to the expense of opening a single flight from an airport in between the two.
AA - See Delta and add the fact that Oneworld has no interest in BHX.
Leisure - Canadian Affair/Air Transat seemed well settled with the token gesture of a weekly YYZ with no sign of anything else, fees have been suggested as an issue. Thomson remain the only company offering an IT programme (nothing from Thomas Cook and Virgin Holidays are not interested in BHX) with still one measly flight to Florida.
East:
Emirates - Went double daily in 2005 and have remained so ever since. They usually like a bit of publicity so the runway extension was the perfect opportunity to drop in an A380 for the day and announce another service, but nothing. Like United have they found their level at 2x daily?
Etihad - Been discussed.
Qatar - See AA.
Turkish - Established at 10x weekly, similar to Emirates/United?
China - Three years to get three charters sorted. Mr Kehoe said they want them back next year but for a longer period meaning they are nowhere near close to a scheduled service.
Air India - Doing well at the moment, the first year saw an average load factor of 76%, 2% more than AI's average, BUT, the route in it's own right didn't make a profit, the saving grace being the amount of connections seen made the whole package profitable. Not a terrible situation for the first year of operations but I imagine with them going daily yields will really need to improve over the next 18 months or so.
Europe:
Ryanair - Expanded in a blaze of glory then retreated to the safety of the sunshine and Eastern European routes, I'd expect nothing more than the odd tweak.
Flybe - Big expansion this year, we won't see the same next year.
Easyjet - Can't get the yields required at BHX prices to make it work.
Monarch - Down at the moment but anything could happen after the review.
Thomson - A couple of bits but nothing major. The extra rotation to Mexico is welcomed but BHX really need a 787 all week, over the summer at least.
Thomas Cook - The extra based A320 will be welcome, dabbled with Florida but it doesn't look to have paid off.
The likes of MAD, LIS, BUD, WAW, VIE, HEL, PRG....... still remain unserved.
I'm struggling as to where we're going get some real growth from next year and possibly break, or at least head toward the 10mppa barrier. We may see the odd bit here and there such as Icelandair but it's going to take something significant to get across the line. I'm hoping there are things happening behind the scenes and we may see a nice surprise or two but I've been hoping that since 2009 after Turkish arrived and, Air India aside, it's all been rather disappointing. At least the owners have their nice £82 million to soften the blow 🙄
:s_dunno
It's definitely on to be a good year pax wise but I'm struggling to see how the growth will continue into 2015 considering we won't have the massive Flybe expansion that we've seen this year. I've been trying to think of potential new arrivals but I'm struggling.
Long Haul:
West:
United - They have a solid daily operation with, I'm told, contracts in place for business pax and cargo, combine that with some of the eye watering fares they offer at times and I'd say the route makes money. Twice daily was tried and the fares dropped significantly, no doubt destroying the yields, so we're back to daily. Will they try double daily again or give ORD a go, I seriously doubt it?
Delta - Just announced a whole load of expansion from LHR and will see the Greater Birmingham area within that catchment area, add to that the reintroduction of JFK from MAN and you have to ask why they'd go to the expense of opening a single flight from an airport in between the two.
AA - See Delta and add the fact that Oneworld has no interest in BHX.
Leisure - Canadian Affair/Air Transat seemed well settled with the token gesture of a weekly YYZ with no sign of anything else, fees have been suggested as an issue. Thomson remain the only company offering an IT programme (nothing from Thomas Cook and Virgin Holidays are not interested in BHX) with still one measly flight to Florida.
East:
Emirates - Went double daily in 2005 and have remained so ever since. They usually like a bit of publicity so the runway extension was the perfect opportunity to drop in an A380 for the day and announce another service, but nothing. Like United have they found their level at 2x daily?
Etihad - Been discussed.
Qatar - See AA.
Turkish - Established at 10x weekly, similar to Emirates/United?
China - Three years to get three charters sorted. Mr Kehoe said they want them back next year but for a longer period meaning they are nowhere near close to a scheduled service.
Air India - Doing well at the moment, the first year saw an average load factor of 76%, 2% more than AI's average, BUT, the route in it's own right didn't make a profit, the saving grace being the amount of connections seen made the whole package profitable. Not a terrible situation for the first year of operations but I imagine with them going daily yields will really need to improve over the next 18 months or so.
Europe:
Ryanair - Expanded in a blaze of glory then retreated to the safety of the sunshine and Eastern European routes, I'd expect nothing more than the odd tweak.
Flybe - Big expansion this year, we won't see the same next year.
Easyjet - Can't get the yields required at BHX prices to make it work.
Monarch - Down at the moment but anything could happen after the review.
Thomson - A couple of bits but nothing major. The extra rotation to Mexico is welcomed but BHX really need a 787 all week, over the summer at least.
Thomas Cook - The extra based A320 will be welcome, dabbled with Florida but it doesn't look to have paid off.
The likes of MAD, LIS, BUD, WAW, VIE, HEL, PRG....... still remain unserved.
I'm struggling as to where we're going get some real growth from next year and possibly break, or at least head toward the 10mppa barrier. We may see the odd bit here and there such as Icelandair but it's going to take something significant to get across the line. I'm hoping there are things happening behind the scenes and we may see a nice surprise or two but I've been hoping that since 2009 after Turkish arrived and, Air India aside, it's all been rather disappointing. At least the owners have their nice £82 million to soften the blow 🙄
:s_dunno
thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
If Hainan do launch MAN-PEK then all the available slots will be exhausted so it'll be out of BHX's hands anyway until the bilaterals are changed. One of the many rumours regarding Air China was that they were looking at PEK-MAN-DUB; I wonder if PEK-BHX-DUB could work? At least we can take comfort in the fact China Southern don't appear to be looking at MAN!
If Hainan do launch MAN-PEK then all the available slots will be exhausted so it'll be out of BHX's hands anyway until the bilaterals are changed. One of the many rumours regarding Air China was that they were looking at PEK-MAN-DUB; I wonder if PEK-BHX-DUB could work? At least we can take comfort in the fact China Southern don't appear to be looking at MAN!
Brummiegem
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I was trying to look on the bright side and I believe that Emirates may yet still provide some welcome news.However I agree we seem to take 1step forward then 2 steps back when it comes to expanding services and new routes.
As per usual we will have to wait and see what happens but us humans are not that patient really,we want everything yesterday,and the wheels of aviation don't really turn that quickly do they???
I was trying to look on the bright side and I believe that Emirates may yet still provide some welcome news.However I agree we seem to take 1step forward then 2 steps back when it comes to expanding services and new routes.
As per usual we will have to wait and see what happens but us humans are not that patient really,we want everything yesterday,and the wheels of aviation don't really turn that quickly do they???
- Moderator
- #410
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Just to say I didn't aim my post at you, it was just a general moan 🙂
I'm trying to look on the bright side too but it seems to get harder with each passing year. I really hope you're right about Emirates because out of all of them it was the one I felt most confident about.
I think you are right and I reckon I am guilty of possibly getting caught up in a few false dawns over recent years. Qatar announced they would start BHX, much rumours of an EK third service, Air Blue arrived with BHX's first scheduled A340, Air India finally returned, Biman announced DAC and JFK with a shiny new 773, the trip to Chicago promised much, Thomas Cook operated a one off to Florida which many thought was to test the water, the runway extension opened with lots of talk about opening up the world then China Southern arrived with the series of Beijing flights with talk of aiming to make them permanent. I think that list is enough to get anyone excited and I really thought BHX had turned a corner, as it's turned out we only ended up with one and it's back to that oh so familiar disappointed feeling again.
Permanerent in fide as they say :good:
Brummiegem said:
Just to say I didn't aim my post at you, it was just a general moan 🙂
I'm trying to look on the bright side too but it seems to get harder with each passing year. I really hope you're right about Emirates because out of all of them it was the one I felt most confident about.
Brummiegem said:
I think you are right and I reckon I am guilty of possibly getting caught up in a few false dawns over recent years. Qatar announced they would start BHX, much rumours of an EK third service, Air Blue arrived with BHX's first scheduled A340, Air India finally returned, Biman announced DAC and JFK with a shiny new 773, the trip to Chicago promised much, Thomas Cook operated a one off to Florida which many thought was to test the water, the runway extension opened with lots of talk about opening up the world then China Southern arrived with the series of Beijing flights with talk of aiming to make them permanent. I think that list is enough to get anyone excited and I really thought BHX had turned a corner, as it's turned out we only ended up with one and it's back to that oh so familiar disappointed feeling again.
Permanerent in fide as they say :good:
TheLocalYokel
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- #411
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I find that remarkable given that the smaller Bristol Airport along the M 5 has MAD, LIS and PRG with easyJet plus WAW (actually WMI) and BUD with Ryanair.
Incidentally, I recently asked a senior consultant at the long-haul travel specialist we use for Australia about BHX and he said he'd heard no rumours or anything else about a third daily EK rotation or three classes. He knows we'd like to fly from BHX again and keeps an ear out. In the end we've had to book via LGW again because this company's EK discounts from there on certain dates next March are up to 25% off premium fares (so long as at least two people book flights) although unsurprisingly they are rapidly being sold out.
It's a great shame that EK cannot make BHX more competitive price-wise on its premium fares.
I find that remarkable given that the smaller Bristol Airport along the M 5 has MAD, LIS and PRG with easyJet plus WAW (actually WMI) and BUD with Ryanair.
Incidentally, I recently asked a senior consultant at the long-haul travel specialist we use for Australia about BHX and he said he'd heard no rumours or anything else about a third daily EK rotation or three classes. He knows we'd like to fly from BHX again and keeps an ear out. In the end we've had to book via LGW again because this company's EK discounts from there on certain dates next March are up to 25% off premium fares (so long as at least two people book flights) although unsurprisingly they are rapidly being sold out.
It's a great shame that EK cannot make BHX more competitive price-wise on its premium fares.
- Moderator
- #412
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Thanks for the info, even the rumour mill has gone very quiet about any EK expansion.
Sadly it's not only limited to Emirates.
Thanks for the info, even the rumour mill has gone very quiet about any EK expansion.
Sadly it's not only limited to Emirates.
- Moderator
- #413
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I agree and some of these are not recent losses. If memory serves Ryanair were last to operate to Madrid and ended in 2008, Warsaw stopped around a similar time? Budapest was briefly operated in 2012, again by Ryanair, but was dropped when they fell out over airport charges and never restarted. Lisbon and Prague were last operated by BMIbaby finishing in 2012.
On occasions it's seemed as if Paul Kehoe has used the media to almost blame the local public for not using their local airport, so in my email I suggested that if destinations aren't served people will have no choice but to fly from elsewhere and Madrid, Warsaw, Budapest, Lisbon and Prague are not insignificant destinations. His reply was to quote the long list of connections available and, whilst impressive, many are simply not an option for Europe, which is one of the points I wanted him to clarify. Take Madrid, flying from Birmingham via CDG with Flybe takes approx 7 hours and 30 mins and costs well over £300, the Lufthansa connections vary between 5 hours and 30 mins and 9 hours, again at a high cost. As a comparison I chose the same dates from Bristol with Easyjet and got a direct flight taking a little over 2 hours 30 mins for £84, even with pre booked seats and luggage it was £130. I simply wanted to know if this is what BHX expect from Midlands travellers because if I ever need to go to Madrid I'll certainly be travelling down the M5.
TheLocalYokel said:
I agree and some of these are not recent losses. If memory serves Ryanair were last to operate to Madrid and ended in 2008, Warsaw stopped around a similar time? Budapest was briefly operated in 2012, again by Ryanair, but was dropped when they fell out over airport charges and never restarted. Lisbon and Prague were last operated by BMIbaby finishing in 2012.
On occasions it's seemed as if Paul Kehoe has used the media to almost blame the local public for not using their local airport, so in my email I suggested that if destinations aren't served people will have no choice but to fly from elsewhere and Madrid, Warsaw, Budapest, Lisbon and Prague are not insignificant destinations. His reply was to quote the long list of connections available and, whilst impressive, many are simply not an option for Europe, which is one of the points I wanted him to clarify. Take Madrid, flying from Birmingham via CDG with Flybe takes approx 7 hours and 30 mins and costs well over £300, the Lufthansa connections vary between 5 hours and 30 mins and 9 hours, again at a high cost. As a comparison I chose the same dates from Bristol with Easyjet and got a direct flight taking a little over 2 hours 30 mins for £84, even with pre booked seats and luggage it was £130. I simply wanted to know if this is what BHX expect from Midlands travellers because if I ever need to go to Madrid I'll certainly be travelling down the M5.
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Well if Spanair hadn't gone belly up we would probably have daily links to MAD and BCN by now. Just another case of unfortunate circumstances beyond BHX's control.
You can add to that list:
Mahan Air (Some bizarre court order on their 744's)
BMI Baby (IAG closure)
Sylhet/Mint/Akal (Revolving door of failed ATQ attempts, is it the same person behind all these?)
Airblue (Reversal of strategy as soon as BHX is launched)
I'm sure there are many more but BHX certainly seems to get its fair share of bad luck!
Well if Spanair hadn't gone belly up we would probably have daily links to MAD and BCN by now. Just another case of unfortunate circumstances beyond BHX's control.
You can add to that list:
Mahan Air (Some bizarre court order on their 744's)
BMI Baby (IAG closure)
Sylhet/Mint/Akal (Revolving door of failed ATQ attempts, is it the same person behind all these?)
Airblue (Reversal of strategy as soon as BHX is launched)
I'm sure there are many more but BHX certainly seems to get its fair share of bad luck!
thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I hope that BHXs very public desire for more long haul flights isn't distracting from more realistic short haul opportunities; personally if I was on the route development team I'd be working hard to secure the likes of TAP, Finnair and Easyjet.
I hope that BHXs very public desire for more long haul flights isn't distracting from more realistic short haul opportunities; personally if I was on the route development team I'd be working hard to secure the likes of TAP, Finnair and Easyjet.
thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Mahan Air have reportedly re-applied to serve the UK again.
Mahan Air have reportedly re-applied to serve the UK again.
Brum X
Elite Pro-Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Yeah i have just noticed this also, will BHX be on there radar once again ?????
thunderchild said:
Yeah i have just noticed this also, will BHX be on there radar once again ?????
thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Who knows - if I remember correctly they first pulled BHX not long after Air India launched and then returned again after Air India departed but I'm not sure if that was just coincidence.
Is the Mahan Air desk still there?
Who knows - if I remember correctly they first pulled BHX not long after Air India launched and then returned again after Air India departed but I'm not sure if that was just coincidence.
Is the Mahan Air desk still there?
- Moderator
- #419
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
I recently read they were looking at starting LGW but I've seen nothing official. They don't fly to Amritsar anymore which used to see alot of BHX pax but they do still fly to Delhi. They also have the big three Chinese airports now (Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou) and of course Bangkok, which I was told was fairly popular last time they were here.
It would be nice to see one of their A340's landing at [strike]Honiley[/strike] BHX :spiteful:
I don't remember seeing the desk last time I was there but there are a couple of empty desks since Emirates moved to a new one in their check in area and Turkish moved to the bigger desk.
I recently read they were looking at starting LGW but I've seen nothing official. They don't fly to Amritsar anymore which used to see alot of BHX pax but they do still fly to Delhi. They also have the big three Chinese airports now (Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou) and of course Bangkok, which I was told was fairly popular last time they were here.
It would be nice to see one of their A340's landing at [strike]Honiley[/strike] BHX :spiteful:
I don't remember seeing the desk last time I was there but there are a couple of empty desks since Emirates moved to a new one in their check in area and Turkish moved to the bigger desk.
thunderchild
Well-Known Member
Re: Route Development & Airport Rumours
Indeed, if they do return I hope their pilots are instructed about the new flight paths!
Ray Finkle said:
Indeed, if they do return I hope their pilots are instructed about the new flight paths!
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