Primera Air

[58terminus]

I'm referring to the following reference...

"However maybe that is there intention so that they can make the retreat from BHX in october and blame BHX for not supporting its routes."

As late October?

 

[GliderPilot]

Ah is it too much to ask a legacy airline to do 1x JFK a week

Love being the optimist but there's not much sunshine to make a rainbow over Primera at the moment. Just a lot of rain...

 

[nwoody2001]

Really? I don't see anyone else willing to set up a long-haul base from BHX...

Yes things are progressing far from what we originally envisaged but alas, if Primera weren't coming to BHX, who exactly is there to provide these important routes?!?

 

[GliderPilot]

Rumours floating around about JetBlue, Jet2 could go long haul someday considering their seasonal ops are going well, their package holidays and the confidence they've already shown in BHX

Just anything that wouldn't cause such a negative public stir like this has.

Primera are giving themselves a government style appearance, 'look at all these promises we've made and cannot fulfil!'

Hope they change my mind I suppose something is better than nothing but after all of this how are they even going to fill the 4x weekly, even the BHX supporters are saying how hesitant they would be to fly with Primera and we're enthusiasts, Imagine what the general public's attitude must be...

Prove me wrong Primera

 

[nwoody2001]

Agreed. What has panned out over the last few weeks is far from ideal and a bit of a suckerpunch to us BHX supporters, but this venture has to succeed is a) bhx wants to retain its USA links and b) attract other links in the future.

OK Boston is gone and capacity reduced compared to what was originally proposed, but alas, if that results in a profitable venture and the long-term success of the partnership between BHX and primera, then that is what need to happen!

 

[58terminus]

I am fed up reading how the how the poorly thought out ambitions of a small unknown airline without the aircraft to match their ambitions are the last chance saloon for the city's airport TATL ambitions.
This is the first year for 25 or so without a daily (or 2) flight. It's a setback but not the end.
With all the developments going on in Birmingham and the bigger ones to come i find
it insulting to the city of Birmingham.

 

[Coathanger16]

I am fed up reading how the how the poorly thought out ambitions of a small unknown airline without the aircraft to match their ambitions are the last chance saloon for the city's airport TATL ambitions.
This is the first year for 25 or so without a daily (or 2) flight. It's a setback but not the end.
With all the developments going on in Birmingham and the bigger ones to come i find
it insulting to the city of Birmingham.

People are noting how much of a struggle it will be for Primera to get passengers back if they do stick around. Think about how difficult it will be to get another airline (if Primera do pull out) to fly BHX to N.America after 3 airlines pull out from flying BHX to possibly the biggest market in N.America.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but if Primera don't stick around after 2018, I can't personally see any airline touching TATL (to USA at least) from BHX until well into the next decade. If Primera do go, which is far from certain, the next airline I could see giving BHX a go could be WestJet to Toronto. Before anybody sites JetBlue and their large network at JFK, let me point out United pulled out stating lack of demand and they arguably have a larger hub at Newark. How could JetBlue succeed where United failed? Newer aircraft thus reducing operating costs? Possibly, but Primera would be using the same aircraft JetBlue would use and if they do pull out, Primera will likely state "lack of demand".

Yes Birmingham as a city is developing fast, but its airport is still relatively small for an airport with long haul ambitions. Do I think Birmingham (the airport and the city) has the demand for multiple long haul routes to N.America and Asia, yes I do. However Birmingham (the airport and the city) are still fairly low on airlines priority list. In the meantime the airport needs to grow its short haul network, fill in major European cities not currently served, and increase frequencies to destinations already served which will make Birmingham more attractive for business. I think come 2025/26, Birmingham will be in a brilliant position for the future. The developments currently under construction will have been completed (including Paradise, Arena Central, Snow Hill & Colmore Row), we'll have hosted the Commonwealth Games, the first phase of HS2 will have just been completed, and BHX will hopefully be around the 17-18mppa mark (assuming average growth of 3-4%).

Sorry if some of that sounded negative, but since joining F4A I've learnt its wise not to raise my expectations too high.

 

[Purebeef]

How I am seeing it is, Brummies have little or no confidence in any airline attempting to create a market at Bhx. So all of the speculation is frightening. Give Primera a chance. Let's not bad press them. We know Stansted is a transatlantic graveyard so leave them be. Time will tell.

 

[airport66]

People are noting how much of a struggle it will be for Primera to get passengers back if they do stick around. Think about how difficult it will be to get another airline (if Primera do pull out) to fly BHX to N.America after 3 airlines pull out from flying BHX to possibly the biggest market in N.America.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but if Primera don't stick around after 2018, I can't personally see any airline touching TATL (to USA at least) from BHX until well into the next decade. If Primera do go, which is far from certain, the next airline I could see giving BHX a go could be WestJet to Toronto. Before anybody sites JetBlue and their large network at JFK, let me point out United pulled out stating lack of demand and they arguably have a larger hub at Newark. How could JetBlue succeed where United failed? Newer aircraft thus reducing operating costs? Possibly, but Primera would be using the same aircraft JetBlue would use and if they do pull out, Primera will likely state "lack of demand".

Yes Birmingham as a city is developing fast, but its airport is still relatively small for an airport with long haul ambitions. Do I think Birmingham (the airport and the city) has the demand for multiple long haul routes to N.America and Asia, yes I do. However Birmingham (the airport and the city) are still fairly low on airlines priority list. In the meantime the airport needs to grow its short haul network, fill in major European cities not currently served, and increase frequencies to destinations already served which will make Birmingham more attractive for business. I think come 2025/26, Birmingham will be in a brilliant position for the future. The developments currently under construction will have been completed (including Paradise, Arena Central, Snow Hill & Colmore Row), we'll have hosted the Commonwealth Games, the first phase of HS2 will have just been completed, and BHX will hopefully be around the 17-18mppa mark (assuming average growth of 3-4%).

Sorry if some of that sounded negative, but since joining F4A I've learnt its wise not to raise my expectations too high.

Hold on a second!! didn't Birmingham to Newark fly for about 20 years and from a report i read in a newspaper article the route carried 2 million passengers over that period. Im finding hard to see how there is a lack of demand when an airliner flies a route for that period of time and transported that number of passengers especially though 9/11 and the great recession. To me that proves there is a market. I personally feel that united may have left for other reasons, but i don't work in the industry so i can't say for sure.
There is a market, just needs the right carrier with onwards connections, similliar to what united offered, then it should see the same success.
All the best to primera, even though they made some major slip ups they should be given a chance.

 

[Purebeef]

Here here, give primera a chance..

 

[Coathanger16]

Hold on a second!! didn't Birmingham to Newark fly for about 20 years and from a report i read in a newspaper article the route carried 2 million passengers over that period. Im finding hard to see how there is a lack of demand when an airliner flies a route for that period of time and transported that number of passengers especially though 9/11 and the great recession. To me that proves there is a market. I personally feel that united may have left for other reasons, but i don't work in the industry so i can't say for sure.

Lack of demand was the reason United quoted - how true that is is anyone's guess.

I don't doubt there is a market to NYC at least, its just which is the right airline to fly it? Could it be Primera? Until a month ago I was very hopeful, but the events of the last few weeks have caused me to readjust my expectations. I'm still hoping Primera will be a success, and if they can make it through this first year and come back in 2019 then we may be onto a winner. I have tried to reserve judgement and have stated previously we shall need to wait and see how 2018 plays out for them.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Let's not bad press them.

Unfortunately they have done a very good job of that themselves.

As a new airline to the region people trusted them with their money and they have been let down big time. To make matters worse the customer service being reported is absolutely shocking. Now these aren't £40 flights to Alicante where there are 5 or 6 more airlines to choose from, these are long haul flights costing several hundred pounds! Add in potential other associated travel costs and people could be well out of pocket. At least they had the option of the not inconsiderable journey to Stansted or getting a refund and having to go to the hassle and expense of booking more flights.

Their brand has been blighted in the region before it's even here, any potential new customers that do even the slightest bit of research about them will likely stay well away.

Also, after the song and dance being made about these being year round flights they are not bookable after October. Yet more false promises? What is that A321 going to do over the winter? Sit around for a season or move to London or Paris? If it's the latter do we really see it coming back after opening routes there? Maybe winter is yet to be added but at the moment it's not looking great.

Lets also go back to the interview where it was stated that 'we will launch more transatlantic routes from London and Paris', the first time that Birmingham has not been mentioned! New routes from both require aircraft so will the two LR aircraft be heading there? If so that leaves us with one A321 at the most. Now maybe BHX is in line for a MAX base and they'll keep things ticking over until then, if so why not just wait another year instead of p$&£ing off the very customers you need?

Maybe Primera will come back in 2019 but even if they announced a raft of new routes I wouldn't trust them with my money and it seems that many others feel the same. Could this end up becoming a self fulfilling prophecy?

 

[nwoody2001]

I’m with purebeef...

...only in BHX can you find supporters of the airport vowing publicly not to use a brand new a very important service because of initial teething problems! Are they perfect, no. Has all gone to plan, no. But does that mean we should not support them ...NO!

Schedule changes happen all the time at lots of airports. Look at Norwegians TATL schedule or Ryanair having to delay routes due to pilot issues. You don’t see people at those airports wishing Norwegian or Ryanair to fail! Yet at BHX we think we’re above Primera?!

Luckily for us, in today’s price driven world, the memories of customers are short and as ever, price is key. Yes Primera will have pissed some people off but a vast majority of the market will be completely unaware of these issues and will be no more the wiser. And if we are lucky enough to have Primera around in 2019 with a hopefully expanded network, these issues will be a distant memory!

Yes they have had issues, yes their operation at BHX is less than they initially hoped, but if Primera launched today with 4x weekly NYC and 3x Weekly YYZ, we’d all be very happy. If reducing the TATL schedule to that level is necessary to making the routes profitable in the first year then so be it.

Consequently it’s about time BHX and it’s supporters get back to doing exactly that and support its airport! Primera sees an opportunity at BHX and I for one will support them however I can! I wish them all the success possible and hope this is the start or a fruitful relationship for all involved.

Apologies for the rant but lord, only in Birmingham do you see people reacting like this.

 

[Ray Finkle]

because of initial teething problems!

It's not teething problems though is it? Aircraft delays would be understandable but they've cancelled one route and reduced another only to move the aircraft for a new route and increased frequency elsewhere. Real commitment there.

Consequently it’s about time BHX and it’s supporters get back to doing exactly that and support its airport!

For the record I only ever use my local airport and have not flown from anywhere else since 2003. I also support new service. When Norwegian arrived I used them to Malaga, when Monarch opened new routes I booked flights to Porto and with Jet2 being new I have two holidays with them this year.

I do my bit to support what we have but just because an airline uses Birmingham it doesn't mean that I'll support them no matter what. Is it too much to ask for a regular, reliable service that people can have confidence in?

Maybe my standards are too high but the bare minimum I expect when booking a flight is that it operates.

I'll take Brum X's lead and say no more on the subject.

 

[Coathanger16]

...only in BHX can you find supporters of the airport vowing publicly not to use a brand new a very important service because of initial teething problems! Are they perfect, no. Has all gone to plan, no. But does that mean we should not support them ...NO!

Schedule changes happen all the time at lots of airports. Look at Norwegians TATL schedule or Ryanair having to delay routes due to pilot issues. You don’t see people at those airports wishing Norwegian or Ryanair to fail! Yet at BHX we think we’re above Primera?!

Does people vowing not to use Primera really surprise you considering whats already happened? With the cuts already seen would you want to risk your own money to fly with them? I support BHX as much as the next guy and when this news initially came out I tried to stay positive much longer than most on here, but even I would have to think long and hard before choosing to use Primera this year. If they come back next year with a schedule at least matching this years they may regain my trust, but for now I just wouldn't want to risk it.

You cite Norwegian and Ryanair, and I'd point out that just this week people have been on social media claiming they'd never fly BA again after they cancelled some flights due to predicted bad weather. As has been stated before, passengers will go back to them because they have an already established brand - Primera doesn't have any brand yet in the UK, so besides these cuts and changes, people don't know much else about what Primera are like.

Luckily for us, in today’s price driven world, the memories of customers are short and as ever, price is key. Yes Primera will have pissed some people off but a vast majority of the market will be completely unaware of these issues and will be no more the wiser.

I think for a lot of passengers that is the case, but for those with a bit more money and are happy to shop around for flights, they are likely to avoid Primera in the future. I just hope there's enough of the former to maintain Primera until it can regain the trust of the latter.

Yes they have had issues, yes their operation at BHX is less than they initially hoped, but if Primera launched today with 4x weekly NYC and 3x Weekly YYZ, we’d all be very happy. If reducing the TATL schedule to that level is necessary to making the routes profitable in the first year then so be it.

I've mentioned before that if Primera had launched with their current offering we would all be very happy with that. The problem is it wasn't what they originally launched with. These cuts have come because of Primera citing lack of demand - that doesn't bode well for the future if they are cutting flights before they even begin. If Primera got their demand estimates wrong and launched too big too soon, it may make some people wonder what else Primera got wrong.

Consequently it’s about time BHX and it’s supporters get back to doing exactly that and support its airport! Primera sees an opportunity at BHX and I for one will support them however I can! I wish them all the success possible and hope this is the start or a fruitful relationship for all involved.

I personally think its wrong to state BHX supporters don't support BHX and its airlines. On the contrary I think BHX supporters have shown some of the strongest support for their respective airport over the years. Not to point fingers but look at the negative response to BA cutting frequencies to LBA and you'll see all airport supporters at times criticize their local airport & airlines. For all its success, BHX has had a tough time of it recently - American, United, Icelandair, Air Transat & Monarch all gone - so is it so surprising we view any development that may be somewhat negative with some caution?

I do agree that if we want Primera to last at BHX then we need to use their service - but Primera have to deliver on their part as well. Considering they launched 3 bases with 2 TATL aircraft each, and from October we will still have 3 bases but BHX will have just 1 based aircraft with Stansted having 3, I personally think the ball is firmly in Primera's court if they want passengers to trust them again. Up until a month ago I would have been happy to book flights with Primera, but now I just wouldn't want to risk my money until I was sure they would operate the flights for that season - I wouldn't personally want to book a flight in September say until they have been operating from BHX for a good month or two and I was confident they'd be sticking around - and if I'm saying that as a pro BHX supporter, just think what the general public may be like.

I apologize if this sounds negative - I do truly want Primera to succeed and succeed at BHX - I for one will just wait and see what comes. The publishing (or lack thereof) of a winter schedule should give an indication of Primera's intentions.

 

[nwoody2001]

It's not teething problems though is it? Aircraft delays would be understandable but they've cancelled one route and reduced another only to move the aircraft for a new route and increased frequency elsewhere. Real commitment there.

So you expect an airline that has never operated out of BHX before to get everything right from day 1? its clear that they provided too much capacity on a market they have little experience in and made changes accordingly. airlines do this all the time, with Jet2 doing exactly this and removing their NYC flights from BHX for next winter. do we question their commitments to BHX?

whilst I would love to see the original schedule to be operated, I would not expect any business to operate flights they can not fill. We are a business, not a charity. If the airline can not fill the seats, they SHOULD make changes for the airline and remaining routes to be profitable. Would you expect anything different?

At the end of the day, with the exception of Flybe, our biggest airlines (Ryanair, Thomson, Thomas Cook, Jet2 etc) all operate bigger operations at other airports but this doesn't force me to question if they are committed to BHX. After all, Primera will still be launching a 2x A/C base from BHX operating 44x weekly flights. pretty good going if you ask me from a standing start!

For the record I only ever use my local airport and have not flown from anywhere else since 2003. I also support new service.

Really...???

Maybe Primera will come back in 2019 but even if they announced a raft of new routes I wouldn't trust them with my money

I don't doubt you are a passionate supporter of BHX and you play a part in supporting some new routes. But my personal opinion is that this is pretty abortive if for every route you promote, you shout down another route.

Yes, we all want routes to operate, but when Ryanair cancelled 34 routes and cancelled thousands of flights... I don't remember seeing such a reaction for them!

As ever, I understand frustration, but as ever, I just promote context.....

 

[flymetothemoon]

It now seems prices on all flights in May to EWR are back to normal so it looks like my
flight on the 26th WILL be OK after all!!!

 

[Coathanger16]

It now seems prices on all flights in May to EWR are back to normal so it looks like my
flight on the 26th WILL be OK after all!!!

Finally some good news! Just what we all needed!

Hope you have a good trip

 

[nwoody2001]

Good news indeed!

Far from a robust source I know but I asked the customer service guys at Primera when the winter schedule will be on sale from BHX ..they said they planned to release these dates in March so hopefully more clarity provided then!

 

[Ray Finkle]

It now seems prices on all flights in May to EWR are back to normal so it looks like my
flight on the 26th WILL be OK after all!!!

Great news

It also gets me off the hook

I asked the customer service guys at Primera when the winter schedule will be on sale from BHX ..they said they planned to release these dates in March

Icelandair said something very similar

Lets hope for better news this time.