The weather - General Thread

The Weather Thread

Discussions about weather...

 

Thanks for the more in depth version @Kevin Farnell . I guess you knew what I meant

 

In my recent visit to Tenerife I noticed the Spanish have similar colour code warning systems as here in the UK. What was immediately apparent though was what we class as Red for "Extreme Heat" the Spanish class as a Yellow warning classified at a "risk". If the temperature is below 34'c in the UK the Met Office classifies it as an Amber for "extreme heat", where as in Spain it isn't even classified as a warning. In Spain only when the temperature rises above 38'c does it become an Amber warning which they call an "Important risk" and only when the temperature rises above 44'c does the Spanish system issue a Red warning.


Now without wanting to restart a debate which will descend into some kind of conspiracy style sling match this does highlight the UKs over dramatising of what is essentially just a heatwave. In my opinion although there is a risk, the risk isn't as great as it is made out to be so long as people stay hydrated.

There we have it though. Their met office, their media, their way of reporting weather is not about fear mongering and making sure everyones scared of it. Rather "look it'll be a little warmer then usual, take these steps".

Your last point. It's correct, No conspiracy. The media are dramatising it for added affect. Weather (for the pun lovers) or not they do it for the fun, or whether they are doing it under instructions to push the climate emergency agenda (clearly evident that two countries styles of similar weather temps are completely and utterly different) is whole different ball game and probably get told of for highlighting it. However it does highlight what you say. It's a heatwave, dramatised over and over again, the risk is minuscule to nil for the majority of all people, elderly should be checked on and as long as people are hydrated the UK functions. Don't also forget this weather generates the BBQ economy and stimulates the hospitality industry which again is needed considering the battering they have taken over last 2 years.

 

The Spanish heat warnings seem sensible, warnings for when the temperature is close to your body temperature or above when it becomes harder for your body to regulate its temperature.

 

I have not read the entire thread however I would make one observation. The population of the Mediterranean countries are far more use to the higher temperatures. The British Isles are not and therefore I believe that an advisory is quite rightly issued while this 'unusual' heat is here.

 

However @Scottie Dog we don't need baby sitting nor do we need scare mongering like we get. The last 2 years has proven that a small % of society has turned to the government to provide them with advice about every single aspect of their own lives. Government baby sitting to the extreme. Rather then applying sun cream, using common sense, and staying hydrated and in the shade. Like the majority of the sensible, level headed, Brits will do.

I would love to do a snap shot interviewing people in Yorkshire about their opinion on the media/government and their complete over reaction about a couple of days where temperatures are over 30 degrees. I would say 90% would have that typical Yorkshire response "they should get lost" ... majority of northerners probably same reaction.

 

From a warning prospective there is only a need for warnings when the temperature is close to exceeding the temperature of the human body when hyperthermia can set in. When the temperature is estimated to reach say 34 degrees then there is a chance this temperature could be exceeded in which case like the Spanish warning system a Yellow warning should be issued as an advisory. When the temperature is expected to reach 37 degrees then an Amber warning should be issued and when the temperature is expected to reach 40 degrees or above then Red should be issued as temperatures above this level are critical for the human body to maintain. Like I said before though, the human body can get hypothermia with temperatures below around 18'c so why aren't warnings issued then. Yes we can wrap up and its easier to get warmer than to get cooler for most people but the groups most at risk are the same.

Anyway I thought I'd put that out there as an observation. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has come across other countries warning systems for heat or cold extremes. Does anyone know why the disparity between different alert systems when the human body has the same limits throughout the globe.

 

Another factor could be humidity. As we all know, the Human body swears to try to regulate body temperature in hot conditions. Add in humidity and the body's ability to lose heat is reduced as sweat evaporates at a much slower rate. I'm finding it far more uncomfortable in Cambridgeshire today than I did a few years ago in Arizona in springtime when the temperatures were around 38-40C. The heat there was so dry, but that can also lead to problems, as you don't realise you are sweating and can soon become dehydrated.

Kevin

 

Sky news on repeat sadly in the office. They’ve got “hottest place right now” which is constantly changing, showing images of brown fields, dry streams and reporters up and down the country at reservoirs reporting the shortage of water.

Tell me you live in a country that’s media is trying it’s hardest to scaremonger the public and push propaganda.

Meanwhile Spanish media … reporting real news worthy issues. Well kinda ….


Sorry if people don’t like it. But it really needs highlighting and people need to wake up.

 

Media will always try to dramatise a news story, they do with all news stories, however the historical data says rainfall is down in comparison with 1976.

Yesterday I was talking to family who were complaining about a new housing development for 400 plus houses in Burley in Wharfedale. Their argument wasn't strictly against house building on green belt, but against building when there's no infrastructure to sustain them. For example an extra 1500 + people but no more reservoirs, roads, doctors etc.

With an expanding population with no new reservoirs to provide water for the ever expanding population its no wonder SKY are reporting in the way that they are, but are they missing the point.

 

Media will always try to dramatise a news story, they do with all news stories, however the historical data says rainfall is down in comparison with 1976.

Yesterday I was talking to family who were complaining about a new housing development for 400 plus houses in Burley in Wharfedale. Their argument wasn't strictly against house building on green belt, but against building when there's no infrastructure to sustain them. For example an extra 1500 + people but no more resovours, roads, doctors etc.

With an expanding population with no new resovours to provide water for the ever expanding population its no wonder SKY are reporting in the way that they are, but are they missing the point.

I’ll come back to this later in a different thread

But they are not missing the point. That’s the point. It is deliberate.

 

Common sense is all that matters here. I would not climb into an oven nor a freezer. Personal comfort and safety is what matters and not any journalistic or ethical pressure to conform. We have weather and
Climate, we have an annual rotation that determines how the weather delivers it's joy.

Climate is ambient, it is the standard by which we moan about the weather!

 

I love a good storm too. Hopefully it will cool things a little in the coming week.

 

It's a heatwave, dramatised over and over again, the risk is minuscule to nil for the majority of all people,

Sadly, the death of another teenager who went swimming was announced yesterday. This must be at least ten over the two recent heatwaves.

However @Scottie Dog we don't need baby sitting nor do we need scare mongering like we get. Rather then applying sun cream, using common sense, and staying hydrated and in the shade. Like the majority of the sensible, level headed, Brits will do.

Unfortunately, 'common sense' does not always prevail. You can only apply 'common sense' if you have the facts/knowledge to do so. This is why the Government release warnings for extreme weather conditions. Taking the sad example that I stated above, large bodies of water take considerably longer to heat up than does the air. This is why the Government has advised against swimming in lakes and the sea during the high temperatures. Jumping into a large body of water, which is considerably colder than the air temperature, can initiate 'cold shock response'. 'cold shock response' is instant. It's not like hypothermia, which can take some time to cause problems. With cold shock response, involuntary inhalation can be triggered, so if your head is below water you will very quickly drown. not to mention heart attack and the loss of strength in the limbs. These symptoms are not restricted to the elderly (in fact they are more often seen in the young, probably because they are more likely to enter large bodies of water during hot weather).
This is just one example of a reason for the Government to issue warnings due to extreme weather. Also, I believe that the Government are correct in basing the warnings on the infrastructure in the UK. Our buildings, roads and railways etc are built to cope with the conditions usually found in the UK. For example, our houses are designed to retain heat and not to keep cool. So for me, comparison between UK and Spanish warning systems does not make sense.

Kevin

 

Sadly, the death of another teenager who went swimming was announced yesterday. This must be at least ten over the two recent heatwaves.

As sad as that it I'm going to be such a matter of fact here. When it gets warm here, anything above 20 degrees, teenagers do ignore the risk and have some fun in the water. Sadly at times this leads to death. It's unfortunate but it happens. No one should die, but, everything in live comes with risk.

This is just one example of a reason for the Government to issue warnings due to extreme weather. Also, I believe that the Government are correct in basing the warnings on the infrastructure in the UK. Our buildings, roads and railways etc are built to cope with the conditions usually found in the UK. For example, our houses are designed to retain heat and not to keep cool. So for me, comparison between UK and Spanish warning systems does not make sense.

Kevin

But warnings should be risk to life. And as @Aviador the body and its response to temperatures is the same. If your in Dubai, Leeds, New York, Northern Siberia. The body reacts more or less the same and that is based on what the body can cope with. Not scaremongering. It's not reached over 35 degrees in the UK at at point over the past 2 days but you'd think it was 45 degrees the way the experts banged on about it, the way the news pushed the scaremongering. In 2020 we had a heatwave and it was reaching these temperatures. Did anyone care then? Any news outlets? Any experts?

I'll apply by own common sense. I don't trust, especially after the last 2 years, these so called experts anymore as much as I once did. The untold damage they've done to the economy, the education of our children, our healthcare services, caused a cancer crises, caused a cost of lockdown crises the list goes on and on and on.

Media will always try to dramatise a news story, they do with all news stories, however the historical data says rainfall is down in comparison with 1976.

Yesterday I was talking to family who were complaining about a new housing development for 400 plus houses in Burley in Wharfedale. Their argument wasn't strictly against house building on green belt, but against building when there's no infrastructure to sustain them. For example an extra 1500 + people but no more reservoirs, roads, doctors etc.

With an expanding population with no new reservoirs to provide water for the ever expanding population its no wonder SKY are reporting in the way that they are, but are they missing the point.

We are also facing "draught" problems and an "expert" has said next year it could be worst. What this expert fails to realise is that there has not been once single new reservoir built since 1992.

The existing reservoir's have not had substantial work done to them (e.g. dig down and make them deeper). What this expert also fails to acknowledge is that water companies up and down the UK, loose a combined 2.4 billion litres a day (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/water-firms-leaking-2-4bn-litres-a-day-hjh7db5l5) a whopping 72 billion litres A MONTH lost through incompetence of these privately owned water companies. Not fixing leaks, not investing in infrastructure. The regulator is neither use nor ornament as they don't really do much with the companies finning them. Yet we the ordinary working person have to be punished for their sheer incompetence.

Instead of investing they come and take the great profits, nice bonuses for the chief execs, and continue to operate with victorian infrastructure with nothing new or investment. In 1976 when we faced a draught all companies gave out bottled water for free. Now in 2022 you have to pay for bottled water during a draught. It's almost like all these private companies are in cahoots in robbing the average working man/women of the money they work hard for to line their own pockets and live a lavish lifestyle.

Just to give you an idea of said draught here is a picture comparing the 1922, 1976 and 2022 draughts and how they compare. Just shows you the agenda that is been pushed by all media. The expert is also wrong (hence another reason to distrust said person):

 

I definitely agree we've gone into drought status because no new capacity has been added, despite more homes being built and therefore ultimately increasing demand but not adding additional supplies to cope with the demand...

 

Based upon the education I received in my childhood, a drought occurred when insufficient rainfall was met with excess demand for water! Capacity, or storage, was never a concern at that time. I was at secondary school during the 1976 event. I was tasked to manage the school weather station during that period and write reports as a constituent part of a Geography A level course. Rain falls and finds it's way to rivers and ultimately the seas that surrounds our islands. I do not ever wish to contradict any previous post, only to ask if my education was wasted!

 

Based upon the education I received in my childhood, a drought occurred when insufficient rainfall was met with excess demand for water! Capacity, or storage, was never a concern at that time. I was at secondary school during the 1976 event. I was tasked to manage the school weather station during that period and write reports as a constituent part of a Geography A level course. Rain falls and finds it's way to rivers and ultimately the seas that surrounds our islands. I do not ever wish to contradict any previous post, only to ask if my education was wasted!

I very much doubt that your education was wasted JENNYJET. I've a;ways found Geography fascinating (rock formation and erosion, volcanism, weather patterns etc), although I only did 'O' level. I do remember that the problem with long dry spells is that the ground becomes hard and dry. When the rain does come, it's not absorbed, but runs off causing localised flooding (which we have seen across the country recently) and can also wash away the top soil.

Kevin

 

Quite so Kevin, Geography is more than knowing the capital cities of Azerbaijan or Guinea Bassau etc. I had difficulty with the course because there were elements of Physics involved and that involved an element of mathematics that was destroyed by an incompetent teacher! I was a rising star at 12yrs old but this teacher wrecked my ability to follow the progression into Algebra etc.

I since, in later life turned to the Law as an academic exercise only, fascinating at the least but absorbing at best.

 

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593603704367742977

Looks like parts of the US are seeing some of the global warming good stuff.

 

The extended GFS for next week is showing a winter blast from the Northeast... winter is coming!

Still to early to tell whether we'll see any snow but the odds have just significantly increased.