Leeds Bradford - General Thread

[jason1-11]

The expansion of Heathrow Airport could bring in £9bn worth of economic benefit to Yorkshire, according to the airport’s chairman.

Read more at: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...-to-yorkshire-of-heathrow-expansion-1-9011890

It is really difficult to see how the expansion of Heathrow airport could possibly equate to any economic growth in Yorkshire but it is my opinion that it is far better than the alternative option.

The North South divide has existed for years but over the last decade or so it would seem there has been an emergence of a regional East West divide. The difference between the economic output and infrastructure and regeneration between the Northern cities is immense and there is a strong collation between a thriving regional airport and economic growth of the surrounding urban areas.

Over the years air services have been driven out of our region to support growth of neighbouring Manchester airport.

We keep being told the way forward is the Northern Powerhouse but for the last decade at least, Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield and Hull have become more and more like satellite towns of neighbouring Manchester with very little benefit to be seen over this side of the hill in Yorkshire.

Systematic leakage of our business and holiday flights to our large rival that lies in the shadows of the Pennines has lead to insufficient growth from any of the airports in the Yorkshire region.

Supporting growth at Heathrow airport is more likely to lead to growth of international business flights than supporting growth from neighbouring Manchester airport. If Leeds Bradford Airport can sustain it's British Airways flights to London it's more likely to have a positive impact on Leeds, Bradford and surrounding areas with business flights to the world.

Supporting growth at neighbouring Manchester airport will only lead to an increasing leakage of European holiday and business flights which will not only drain even more passengers away from our region but it will also have a greater negative impact on our regional economy East of the Pennines.

So Manchester inches closer to a staggering 28 million passengers a year. With a large capital investment programme underway and airlines queueing to operate there, we can only see this figure rising exponentially.

If say 15- 20% of those 28 million originate or have an end destination in Yorkshire then that’s 4.2 - 5.6 million potential passengers lost every year.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

If say 15- 20% of those 28 million originate or have an end destination in Yorkshire then that’s 4.2 - 5.6 million potential passengers lost every year.

Not sure this is a realistic number, LBA does not even have one runway that can cope with the range of aircraft that use Manchester and as a local resident the chances of altering the present runway format is slim.
If you work the figure on the mix of aircraft type using LBA I suggest your looking at 1 or 2% loss, say less then 10% of LBA currant numbers i.e. 400k

 

[lbaspotter]

Seriously I'm laughing at the fact that the BA operated LBA-LHR route is back to 3x daily A319 service again this week along with the extra Jet2 flights which are now operating.
I bet that it i'll be upsetting the locals with the extra traffic on the A658 again, Saying that I have noticed the traffic has been reduced what with the parents and teachers in there 4x4's not doing the 2x daily school runs?

 

[Aviador]

So Manchester inches closer to a staggering 28 million passengers a year. With a large capital investment programme underway and airlines queueing to operate there, we can only see this figure rising exponentially.

If say 15- 20% of those 28 million originate or have an end destination in Yorkshire then that’s 4.2 - 5.6 million potential passengers lost every year.

Two airports in Scotland with a population around the same size as Yorkshire each handle more than double the number of passengers than LBA and each handle more than all the Yorkshire airports put together. Yorkshire is grossly underserved.

If you work the figure on the mix of aircraft type using LBA I suggest your looking at 1 or 2% loss, say less then 10% of LBA currant numbers i.e. 400k

Your figures are inaccurate by a huge margin. The majority of the aircraft types operating out of Manchester can operate out of Leeds no problem. For the most part, the majority of the passengers lost to Manchester are using short haul business and leisure flights to Europe or destinations that can be easily accommodated from this side of the Pennines.

To summarise, as a region Yorkshire needs to stop accepting second best. Leeds, Bradford Sheffield and Hull are losing billions of pounds worth of inward investment because of inadequate air service connectivity. Air services than can operate from this region.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

[QUOTE Your figures are inaccurate by a huge margin.[/QUOTE]

This may be the case, what you cant really argue about is the infrastructure of Manchester and Glasgow compared to LBA.
The roads are poor, the rail is non existent, local transport virtually absent, the expansion potential of the airport is poor, and unless you can change the daily famine and feast daily operation a huge expansion of flights on a daily basis is unlikely.
I moved into the area to locate my businesses here in the mid 80's when extension of working hours planned, I have been a strong supporter of the airport ever since, the day I moved in I refused to sign a petition against the new airport hours, putting me at odds with my neighbours.
Unfortunately there has been no grown up writing on the road network in this time, Chain Bar is now voted the most confusing/dangerous inter change in Yorkshire, the A658 is in the top ten for congestion and the A65 air pollution levels in Leeds are far in excess of permitted levels.
I picked up a wheel chair bound friend in Menston last week for a 9.30 am LGI appointment, picked up at 7.45am hoping to do blood tests at 8.45am, we arrived 15 minutes late.

 

[Bigman]

I think you need to run for Mayor Tarnspotter. Totally agree with all the road/access issues.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Not sure this is quite the right thread but here goes. We moan about LBA, the following food for thought.
Just taken by son and family to Manchester airport to meet up with another young family for a weekend away.
Allowed plenty of time and traffic moving so arrived with 3 hours and 30 minutes to go and the other family there already.
As cabin luggage only and booked in they proceeded to security 4 adults, 2 babies and two toddlers to be advised they could not enter as 3 hours plus to flight time and the plane flagged delayed.
Pointed out one of the babies wanted feeding and with winding, changing etc this not a 5 minutes job, surely they could be let through.
Realising you could not argue with the staff, my son went to the airline desk and explained the situation and felt if this was the staff additude just before Easter what chance was there at peak times for a family to enjoy a pleasant trip, without rushing about.
Thankfully the airline once they understood the profile of the party returned with my son to security and requested onbehalf of the airline they were let through. This was done without a wimper from the security staff, who advised my son, if he had told him he was going to contact the airline, he would have been let through, his job to just deter folk from going though, not to escalate the situation.
What really upset my son, was at Manchester last summer took 90 minutes to queue to get through security, yet when they walked up today not busy at all, yet barriers put in there way.
I should point out my son lives in the Birmingham area, Manchester is only used where others in the party find Manchester more convenient, Jet2 creating a base at Birmingham was great news for him.
I cant be bothered to post in the Manchester forum as I am sure it will do no good, however, just though it may balance some of the negative LBA comments.

 

[paully]

Sounds about right for Manchester security who like to give the impression that they are arrogant sub humanoids who suffer from delusions of grandeur!!!...Mind you you'll nsee a tin hat on if you post such things on the Manchester thread!!!!

 

[lbaspotter]

Yeap they can never do nothing wrong at MAN with them tainted glasses on.

Least on this side if hill we admit our faults.

 

[dmrodgers]

Sounds about right for Manchester security who like to give the impression that they are arrogant sub humanoids who suffer from delusions of grandeur!!!...Mind you you'll nsee a tin hat on if you post such things on the Manchester thread!!!!

Agree with every word about the security staff at Manchester, don't like but use MAN for reasons of convenience when visiting family out in Dubai around twice a year and get the Emirates flight. Never yet had a good experience with them. Contrast that to LBA where there has been a big improvement recently, flew week last Friday on LS223 to Tenerife returning last evening on LS224 where the secirity staff at LBA were helpful, friendly and and efficent in their job moving people through quickly. No more than 5 minutes wait on the outward leg, and after landing in thick fog yesterday, runway 14 used by G-LSAK, I assume using CAT2 as you couldn't see the runway until we touched down, we were ready to leave the car park 25 minutes later which included picking up cases from the carousel. Well done Jet2 and LBA, so much for all the moaners who knock the airport.

 

[David_itl]

I've used MAN at different times of the day and on different days with the best being a nice speedy 10 minutes through security, waiting for a suitcase and ointo a taxi and 15 minutes later arriving back home (5 miles from the airport), with the typical situation being 1 hour from arriving through to being home. Remarkable that the "big improvement" at LBA means leaving the airport whereas I was at home in the same time. What's LBA's excuse for being so poor when there's tumbleweed blowing through the airport? For departures, I've had no more than 30 to 40 minutes delay at MAN even when leaving in the 1st departure wave of the day.

 

[Seasider]

I will treat the comment about "tumbleweed blowing through the airport" with the contempt it deserves - and ignore it.
The question I would like to ask is - dmrodgers quoted "25 mins from touchdown to leaving carpark", David_itl quoted "10 mins through security, into a taxi". I would imagine that from landing at MAN to reach security would be at least 15 mins. You would pick up a taxi outside the terminal where to walk (or bus) to a carpark would be at least 5 mins.
By my reckoning it took less time at LBA if you compare "like for like"

I am flying from MAN next month, first time in 6 years, I will relate my experience.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Thanks for all the responses, I think I will just leave on the LBA forum, as I was just trying to balance reports regarding LBA. I accept the vast majority of people only write negative reports, but as one who uses around half a different airport outside LBA each year, you can judge LBA against other similar airports.
IN addition having used LBA for more decades that I wish to declare, I can see especially in the last decade a constant striving to make things better, terminal wise especially, not major but progress.
Hopefully if I can battle the snow as by bad planning find myself 200 miles south from the airport and flying out tomorrow, its our first visit in 3 months, will be interesting to see the changes.

 

[Silvercity]

Sounds about right for Manchester security who like to give the impression that they are arrogant sub humanoids who suffer from delusions of grandeur!!!...Mind you you'll nsee a tin hat on if you post such things on the Manchester thread!!!!

I have experienced very rude reception from terminal one security several times..Was so annoyed on one occasion I sent a Twitter to Manchester Airport at the time which is something I very rarely do.Thought about going on MAN forum but didn't for reasons you described.

 

[Bigman]

To be honest, these days I find the whole airport experience so much of a put off that it has pretty much put me off flying. I have had so many bad experiences, including massive queues and waits at inbound immigration, being treated like a criminal battery hen at central screening, 90 minutes to transit between terminals, 30 minutes wait to get onto a gate, selected for random rigorous grilling at immigration, major delays to flights etc. And this covers a very wide variety of airports in different countries, particularly the larger ones.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I agree, Bigman. I find flying a hassle these days. It's just a means to an end. I used to enjoy the flight as part of the holiday.

 

[Aviador]

I am sure you are right on much of what you mention there @mode1 but we know all too well that parking fees are a cash-cow for airports. I personally view the charges as nothing more than an airport development tax. If airports aren't changing airlines enough to pay the bills that's not the fault of the flying public. When people book a flight, the full cost of the transit through the terminal should be inclusive. Spending money at the bar or in the shops is a choice.

 

[White Heather]

I am sure you are right on much of what you mention there @mode1 but we know all too well that parking fees are a cash-cow for airports. I personally view the charges as nothing more than an airport development tax. If airports aren't changing airlines enough to pay the bills that's not the fault of the flying public. When people book a flight, the full cost of the transit through the terminal should be inclusive. Spending money at the bar or in the shops is a choice.

If LBA (or any other similar airport) tried to charge airlines enough by way of landing fees, to pay all the bills associated with running an airport, then there would be very few airlines operating into them - in which case, the airport might as well close. Can you imagine the reaction of Mr O'Leary if LBA were to insist on Ryanair paying the much higher landing fees required? They would be gone in a flash, as they have at various other airports. The reality is that the days of airports such as LBA dictating the landing fees are gone. They have to be negotiated and it is the airlines, not the airports, that are in the driving seat. The parking charges bring in the additional resources to cover the shortfall, run the airport, pay the wages and allow for some investment. So to an extent Aviador, you are correct as some of the money will be re-directed towards airport development and I certainly don't mind that.

 

[Aviador]

@White Heather Just in case you weren't aware, mode1 was referring to new parking charges at Manchester Airport. As far as LBA goes, the charges are here, and they're almost certainly here to stay and I think most people now accept that. It is a little bit different for Manchester airport though as the alternatives are so far away so passengers will have little alternative than to cough up the dosh unless they're prepared to park over a mile away. It is what it is though and I accept that. At least so far LBA the airport is now on a level playing field so far as the pick-up and drop-off charges go and if anything LBA has an advantage because of it's size and proximity to free parking facilities for those who insist on it.

 

[White Heather]

Yes, I am aware that the post was relating to MAN Aviador but your comments related to parking fees being a cash cow for airports (plural), suggesting you were talking in general terms. Therefore it seemed that your comments relating to airports not charging enough related also to all airports, and as this is the LBA forum, I assumed you also therefore included LBA in that. As for MAN, of all airports in the North, they probably have the least 'excuse' (if one is needed) to charge the drop off fee, given the number of airlines that operate from there, including those which do not fall into the 'low cost' or even slightly low cost category and which generally will pay higher landing charges. I wonder therefore how much of MAN's charging for drop off is driven by necessity and how much be charging simply because they can do. It was only a matter of time before they did and at least it will mean those who love to hate LBA will have to find another excuse to go to MAN instead.