Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

White Heather

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2009
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Leeds
I am amazed at the negative comments re: Parkway Station and Park and Ride. I thought this news would have been seen as positive.

You should know by now rmac that nothing is ever seen as positive. We wanted a link road but when they announced funding there was negativity about the route, the impact on people, the timescale and even suggestions that in fact it isn't needed. They have now announced the parkway station which puts LBA on the rail map yet there is more negativity than positivity. When the terminal extension happens, the complaints will start that we need a new terminal. If we extended the runway I bet there would be complaints we should have a new runway in a better direction. What is affordable or practicable seems not to come into the equation. Above, there is a comment that heavy rail is feasible. Provided it is in a tunnel! So that is a tunnel at the Horsforth side and another tunnel at the Guiseley side, and a tunnel in the middle for the LBA station no doubt, at huge cost and clearly not viable for a medium size regional airport. Reality checks are very much needed I am afraid. Why use heavy rail in a series of hugely expensive tunnels when for less you can use a tram train system that still operates on the heavy rail line but doesn't need any tunnels at all??

I just wish people would have a glass half full attitude rather than a glass half empty view which seems far to prevalent on here. I could put my tin hat on as I know what is coming but I won't because I honestly don't care.
 

Tarn Spotter

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
1,083
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White Heather, certainly in Yeadon locals want a station with adequate parking for commuters, whether it helps the airport or not.
Last year there was talk of Horsforth woodside reopening to provide parking and a way of coping with the 2000+ new homes coming to the area, folks are clutching at straws trying to resolve the commuter issue.
Now is a great chance to kill two birds with one stone. Thruthfully dont know about gradients, but were building for 100 years and we have to get cars off the road. Crossrail has shown how tunnelling can be made to work, if Crossrail 11 delayed, this equipment would be avilable. It may reduce this line to commuter traiffic only, but Harrogate will survive.
 

rmac

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2009
410
163
White Heather: I sympathize. I do not know what it is about Yorkshire (where I was brought up) but here in Scotland things happen with little negativity. In the last few years we have had proposed, planned, financed, and either built or is ongoing. Edinburgh airport -2 extensions and the tram from city centre to the airport, new Forth crossing bridge with associated motorways and junctions connecting the M90, M9 and M8. New rail/tram station near Edinburgh airport almost complete. New railways in the borders and from Stirling to Alloa. Upgraded A80 to motorway standard- M80, --new A8, M8, M73 + M74 improvements, dualing the A9 to Inverness, Aberdeen by-pass underway. Serious plans for tram'train in to Glasgow airport, new direct rail link to Aberdeen airport.
Last time I drove from Pudsey to Horsforth, maybe 2 years ago, the City By-pass was still single carriageway as it was when I passed my test in the 1960's.
So what's the big problem in building a fairly simple station near the airport? Its in a cutting someone says and what about carrying cases and luggage up to a bus!!!! There are travelators and lifts - anyone seen the one in the North Terminal at Gatwick? We need to live in the real world where £'s matter. Okay - the Parkway will not be for everyone... driving there and parking may be the best option. But it may well be a good option for quite a number and together with the P&R should be a very useful addition to the transport issues in and around Leeds.
 

yorkguy

Member
Dec 2, 2011
83
18
An impressive list rmac, and well done for Scotland. If only the 5 million people in Yorkshire received the same level of public funding that the 5 million in Scotland do, then maybe the Leeds city region wouldn't compare so badly to others when it comes to infrastructure projects. I fully accept a heavy rail link isn't financially viable to an airport on a hill, but I do wish our local politicians had a higher profile and more clout in government. After all Osborne dreamt up the Northern Powercon so he could try to get more dosh for Greater Manchester and district.
Sorry for derailing the thread. I'll shut up now.
 

White Heather

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Jan 14, 2009
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Leeds
In case anyone was wondering why I haven't provided any feedback from the December consultative committee meeting (scheduled for yesterday) it was cancelled at short notice and no reasons given. No report was issued either by LBA. I have just received confirmation that it has been scheduled for 6th January 2017.
 

leedslad

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2012
382
63
Thanks Heather.
Will that give time to ask how at an early stage the airport anticipate linking to any Park and ride (sadly presumably bus) and whether Bridgepoint would consider investing in any infrastructure such as people mover (sadly presumably not)?
 

quik123

Active Member
Oct 26, 2014
108
43
Thanks Heather.
Will that give time to ask how at an early stage the airport anticipate linking to any Park and ride (sadly presumably bus) and whether Bridgepoint would consider investing in any infrastructure such as people mover (sadly presumably not)?
I don't get how a "people mover" is better than a bus. By people mover do you mean a corridor all the way from the train to the terminal building with a moving walkway in it? It would have to be some length, across farm land and Scotland Lane? Passengers would have to walk to it with their luggage, stand/walk over a mile. What happens when it stops or fails or some idiot pushes the E-stop. It would then be a long walk up hill? Surely it's just simpler to get on and off a bus, or am I missing something?
 

Airplane

Member
Aug 31, 2015
31
8
I'd suggest either a monorail or the 4 person driverless cabins that use at Heathrow parking which are instant so no wait time involved
 

quik123

Active Member
Oct 26, 2014
108
43
I'd suggest either a monorail or the 4 person driverless cabins that use at Heathrow parking which are instant so no wait time involved
I'd love to see either of these. But again, over all that farm land and across a road? Who's going to pay the millions it would cost?
I think a bit of realistic thinking says the only option is a bus service. If it is frequent, clean and included in the price of the train ticket I can't imagine we would get any better.
 

White Heather

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2009
5,814
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Leeds
Thanks Heather.
Will that give time to ask how at an early stage the airport anticipate linking to any Park and ride (sadly presumably bus) and whether Bridgepoint would consider investing in any infrastructure such as people mover (sadly presumably not)?

I can already answer that leedslad. The airport already has single deck coaches that operate down to the car parks and the plan has been (so far) to extend them down a purpose built link road to the station, which then becomes part of their route. They will presumably need another couple of buses given the extended travel time on them, but they have several years to sort this out. It is too far for a moving walkway - almost 1 mile through farmland. They will have to build a road to any park and ride so it makes little sense to then not use it for buses to and from the station. A shuttle bus is the only option but even major airports have shuttle buses so it is nothing new. LBA just has to ensure the buses are frequent, reliable and of a suitable type - and that weather shelters are provided to wait in. Ideally, the shuttle buses need to be timed to be at the station before each train comes in, so passengers don't need to wait. I am sure that wouldn't be too difficult to sort out.

Until a tram train can be built it is the Parkway Station or nothing. So the sooner Railtrack sort out the issues with such technology down in South Yorkshire, the better as it's our best chance of a rail link directly into LBA - which remains the airports objective. Look upon the parkway station as a stop gap measure.
 

leedslad

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2012
382
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I've been to many airports that provide continuous free automated people mover systems. These are far far more convenient and attractive than any shuttle bus service.

See Dusseldorf as just one example.
 

Tarn Spotter

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
1,083
113
Surely all the land from the new station will be earmarked for airport use all the way to the currant long stay car park, were going to need a 20k space car park for starters an area half mile by half a mile, with the car park link roads, plus there has to be a link road from Whitehouse Lane, surely, never mind the route of the new airport link road.
Not sure the length of the skylink at Manchester but it used to take me quite a long time to walk along the link and through the terminals to T3, I bet this distance not far short of what we may have at Leeds and will be all on the floor.
If its a covered walkway, after a long rail journey, many will want to walk
 

White Heather

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Jan 14, 2009
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Leeds
Surely all the land from the new station will be earmarked for airport use all the way to the currant long stay car park, were going to need a 20k space car park for starters an area half mile by half a mile, with the car park link roads, plus there has to be a link road from Whitehouse Lane, surely, never mind the route of the new airport link road.
Not sure the length of the skylink at Manchester but it used to take me quite a long time to walk along the link and through the terminals to T3, I bet this distance not far short of what we may have at Leeds and will be all on the floor.
If its a covered walkway, after a long rail journey, many will want to walk

And you can guarantee that if a moving walkway was the only option there would be many who would complain bitterly there was no bus.
Why would we need a £20K space car park for a park and ride scheme? Rather big isn't it?

If the naysayers on here are right and the parkway station is nothing more than a White Elephant as far as LBA access is concerned, who in their right mind would spend a small fortune buying up all the farm land between the rail station and terminal, another small fortune building the moving walkway which would be almost 1 mile long, and then find that nobody used it hardly? Now THAT is what I would call a White Elephant. The park and ride will ensure that this parkway station plan is quite the opposite to a White Elephant and strangely enough, the expert studies that have examined how much use it would get all seem to agree - which is why they are going to build it.
 

leedslad

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2012
382
63
When I talk about people mover I mean more like a driverless shuttle or monorail etc like seen at many other airports?..
 

bobleeds

Member
Jan 17, 2009
70
8
dallas-fort-worth-airport.jpg Heathrow Terminal 5 uses small driverless pneumatic tyred trains to ferry passengers between the main terminal and the B and C satellites in a tunnel, and a similar train is used to move passengers around the terminals above ground at Dallas Fort Worth - the gradient would be no problem for this type of system, which I am sure would be cheaper than heavy rail or tramway. also capable of carrying a decent load, unlike the Heathrow pods which only carry 4 persons (less when you add luggage).
 
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Aviador

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Jan 12, 2009
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HEAD OFFICE
I would much rather see any additional investment spent on improving airport terminal facilities rather than on expensive walkways, trams or electric driverless cars linking to the new parkway as nice as they would be.
 

airforced

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2010
1,108
133
North Yorkshire
I would suggest that everyone dreaming of some fancy method to transport people from whatever station faciiity is eventually provided return to bed immediately and begin their dreams again basing those dreams on a knackered old bus or two and a wish for a shelter in which to wait for that bus.
 

leedslad

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2012
382
63
Which is why I wanted the airport to comment on their early plans... if it's a bus link I'm driving or taxi...
 

rmac

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2009
410
163
It is a bus, Masterplan shows that... best solution too. I am sure it will be fine and it will not be a drafty bus shelter. PS Edinburgh opened their new rail halt at Gogar to provide connections from the north onto the tram into the airport... cost £41m
 
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