Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

[a300boy]

No complaint from me !
As you said they seem confident they can provide growth and stability so bring it on.
Just want something to happen then I can be very happy and join in the celebrations.

 

[Scottie Dog]

A very interesting discussion here, in particular with regards to access to the general public.

I recently emailed the Secretary of the Manchester Consultative Group and received the following response:

Many thanks for your message, and I can confirm that the Consultative Committee meetings are open to the public as observers. You will be very welcome to attend on 18th January, when the meeting starts at 10am, and I look forward to seeing you there

It therefore appears that the DfT ruling is applied by Manchester although The Technical Advisory Group on the other hand is not held in public so you will not be able to attend that.

My apologies if I have hijacked your thread!!

 

[Deleted member 82]

Thank you White Heather for your comprehensive update. Can I ask what the Section 106 is and is it usual that it is granted as a matter of course?

 

[LBA8098]

Xboy 106s are developer obligations to contribute. For example if planning permission was to be granted for a school development then the developer s may well have to pay for the cost of a new set of nearby traffic lights or traffic islands.

 

[White Heather]

Yes, that is right, they are usually conditions that are applied, so for example as LBA's passenger numbers increase, they may be required to fund or contribute towards road improvements or public transport initiatives to relieve pressure on the road network. I believe that as part of the conditions for the (now binned) terminal front development, LBA were required to part fund improvements to the Dyneley Arms cross roads 2 miles to the North of the airport.

 

[White Heather]

A very interesting discussion here, in particular with regards to access to the general public.

I recently emailed the Secretary of the Manchester Consultative Group and received the following response:

Many thanks for your message, and I can confirm that the Consultative Committee meetings are open to the public as observers. You will be very welcome to attend on 18th January, when the meeting starts at 10am, and I look forward to seeing you there

It therefore appears that the DfT ruling is applied by Manchester although The Technical Advisory Group on the other hand is not held in public so you will not be able to attend that.

My apologies if I have hijacked your thread!!

Not at all. I am sure that at LBA, the public would be welcome to attend as an observer and I do know that occasionally that have done, but equally I am sure that people just turning up on the day would lead to chaos given the size of the room available, it's location within the airport outbuildings etc. I think that if that did happen with any regularity and not by arrangement, then the meeting would have to be re-located to a much bigger space. Today, for example, the location of the meeting was changed at the last minute from where it has been held on recent occasions, back to the building where it used to be held, and not having seen the email about this (sent out late yesterday) even I didn't know it had been relocated until I got there. The location is close to the airport's cargo area, and inside a road protected by barrier, so you can imagine the problems if the doors were just thrown open.

 

[airforced]

Xboy 106s are developer obligations to contribute. For example if planning permission was to be granted for a school development then the developer s may well have to pay for the cost of a new set of nearby traffic lights or traffic islands.

That is the reason why all new supermarkets etc have a shiny new roundabout close by, ie local authorities get something they really need for free, and the locals don't end up paying for it through their rates.

 

[louis_walton]

Always a pleasure to read Heather just shows that we assume theres only negative news coming out of LBA even though we are having a new building! Just shows how hard the teams working behind the scene, because Jet2 have such a large presence I push aside all the great Jet2 news that they provide us with as I just want something new but in reality they are great for LBA.

 

[a300boy]

The problem is we have said the same about the previous management, Tui and Thomas Cook and they are all gone ! fingers crossed they deliver and we will all be happy.

 

[White Heather]

The real problem is that the aviation industry is so easily impacted by the state of the economy and what is happening in the world. When things go wrong, aviation often suffers, and when it does, it is the smaller regional airports that often take the hit in a bigger way than the larger airports. Although the larger airports may lose plenty of flights and airlines, they usually still have plenty left and airlines consolidate their operations to those larger airports. We have seen this time and again here at LBA and other airports around the country have suffered too.

Despite the issues of LBA, we have in the past done well to secure new operators, and then, through no fault at all of LBA or its management, we have lost them again. Monarch is a perfect example. Having them here was great for the airport and it proved we could operate with Jet2, Ryanair and Monarch all in competition. Then the plug is pulled on Monarch and they are gone. That affected airports like MAN even more than us in terms of the actual loss, but MAN is better placed to bounce back and attract airlines and new routes to replace Monarch, LBA less so.

One thing we were told yesterday that makes things relating to Monarch so much worse for LBA is that (unknown to us), Monarch were to base a 3rd aircraft at LBA for summer 2019 had they survived. That was confirmed yesterday by the CEO.

So it always seems like for airports like ours that it is 2 steps forward and then 1 or even 2 steps back again. Add to that the fact that LBA is still playing catch up from the years of under-investment and obstruction from self centred councillors and MPs in the past and also that when the shackles are finally removed, someone decides to build a competing airport at Finningley, making life even more difficult. And as if that isn't enough, we in this area don't seem to be able to secure funding for infrastructure, or even when we do, it takes forever to do what other areas seem to do in half the time. DSA only came on the scene just over 10 years ago yet quickly secured the funding to build a new road link and that is already in place, yet LBA are still waiting for anything definite with regard to it's far less satisfactory road link, or the Parkway Station which is so vital. These are not things the airport is responsible for or can directly control or fund. It is the fault of those who run Leeds and West Yorkshire as a whole.

All things considered, LBA has done well in the face of constant obstruction and has risen from around 4m passengers, and maintained it, despite the losses caused by 9/11, the Icelandic Volcano, the loss of British Midland, and then Monarch, and Thomson/Tui, and Thomas Cook and various other airlines and particularly lost domestic routes. We have plateaued for now but hopefully those figures will start to climb again over the next couple of years. Frankly I expected a reduction last year and it didn't happen. As things stand, without TUi and Thomas Cook I expect a reduction now in 2019 - but lets see what David Laws and his team have up their sleeve to redress the balance again.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Middle East routes - David advised that there was no point in even approaching airlines operating to the Middle East unless the facilities at LBA and the infrastructure meets their requirements, and these include rail access (via the Parkway station) and wide body holding lounges at the gates.

Not all MEB3 airports have rail access. Two that I've used in Europe don't - Glasgow and Prague; neither do some in Australia that I've used including Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne (handles around 37 mppa and relies entirely on buses and taxis for public transport). I expect there are other airports too.

Edinburgh now has tram access which links up with the nearby Edinburgh Gateway railway station, and Newcastle has a Metro. Cardiff, which gained a Qatar route earlier this year, has a small station a mile or so away linked by a bus, with only an hourly train service into the city centre.

With this in mind I find the CEO's comment slightly surprising.

 

[White Heather]

Not all MEB3 airports have rail access. Two that I've used in Europe don't - Glasgow and Prague; neither do some in Australia that I've used including Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne (handles around 37 mppa and relies entirely on buses and taxis for public transport). I expect there are other airports too.

Edinburgh now has tram access which links up with the nearby Edinburgh Gateway railway station, and Newcastle has a Metro. Cardiff, which gained a Qatar route earlier this year, has a small station a mile or so away linked by a bus, with only an hourly train service into the city centre.

With this in mind I find the CEO's comment slightly surprising.

Perhaps those airports have reasonable road access though Local Yokel. LBA's major problem is it has a relatively poor road network around it. There isn't even a dual carriageway road within 3 miles. It has to make do with urban single carriageway roads as it's main form of access plus some very narrow back roads used by local drivers as a short cut. Bus routes are therefore not express buses - just service buses picking up much of the way out of Leeds, Bradford or Harrogate en route. David Laws knows these airlines well having secured Emirates for NCL, the airport he managed prior to LBA, so clearly he knows what they are looking for at LBA. What they demand at LBA may be something different to what they demand at another airport with otherwise better infrastructure.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Perhaps those airports have reasonable road access though Local Yokel. LBA's major problem is it has a relatively poor road network around it. There isn't even a dual carriageway road within 3 miles. It has to make do with urban single carriageway roads as it's main form of access plus some very narrow back roads used by local drivers as a short cut. Bus routes are therefore not express buses - just service buses picking up much of the way out of Leeds, Bradford or Harrogate en route. David Laws knows these airlines well having secured Emirates for NCL, the airport he managed prior to LBA, so clearly he knows what they are looking for at LBA. What they demand at LBA may be something different to what they demand at another airport with otherwise better infrastructure.

Ah, thank you. I misinterpreted the context. I thought he was saying this was a pre-condition for all MEB3 airports.

 

[leedslad]

Was any of the confidential info good news? Or just reasons for bad news?

Talking of the Parkway station, I find it madness they're going to build the new road across the most direct route to the airport... Anywhere else in the world the Parkway would connect under the road via an underpass directly to the terminal.

 

[White Heather]

Was any of the confidential info good news? Or just reasons for bad news?

Talking of the Parkway station, I find it madness they're going to build the new road across the most direct route to the airport... Anywhere else in the world the Parkway would connect under the road via an underpass directly to the terminal.

I have already included in what I wrote that there is, or should be, good news very soon regards new airline/routes but I can't say any more as it is classed as commercial in confidence. If it happens, you won't have long to wait to find out.

Not sure which road you are talking about. The only road the parkway station access would cross is currently Scotland Lane - a narrow minor road. In the future it is likely to form the route of the new link road. The design of that link road and how the access road to and from the parkway station will cross it hasn't yet been published, so not sure how you are reaching your conclusions. It could yet be an underpass, as the only other option is a junction or roundabout. Bear in mind though that the parkway station is also intended to provide a park and ride, which will mean access from the new link road to the park and ride car park. So on that basis there will have to be some form of join between the new road and the parkway station access road.

 

[leedslad]

Thanks

Yes was meaning option A of the new link road (I think). I'm assuming they won't include an underpass but hope to be proven wrong.

 

[White Heather]

Hi guys (and any girls if there are any out there!). Today was the latest Airport Consultative Committee Meeting at LBA so here is my report for your information.

Route development/airline business etc: Due to the impending retirement of the Aviation and Commercial Director at LBA (Chris Sanders) at the end of this week, there was no director presence who was able to provide any information on this subject. Chris will be replaced by existing employee, John Cunliffe, who has an airline industry background, having 10 years experience with Easyjet (come on John, get us Easyjet please!!), and a new employee, Tom Holdsworth who has a travel trade background. Both will be attending the Hanover route conference to meet with prospective new airlines to discuss developments at LBA, including terminal, road and rail, and to try to entice them towards the airport for future routes. This will take place on 8th-10th April. Meanwhile, LBA will publish a new Aviation Strategy in April, setting out their intentions to increase route options & passenger numbers in line with published expectations.

Terminal Development: A presentation was made regarding the terminal development, which is now commencing with the services connections work (groundworks). Further changes to plans have been introduced. All plant will now be located on the lower ground floor, instead of on the roof, which will now have a clean appearance. Border Force will also have office accommodation on the lower ground floor. Changes have also been made to the proposals for the 3 large size baggage re-claim belts and how the baggage will arrive at these. These will result in some changes to plan but will also mean that the ground floor (arrivals) will be approximately 1 metre above apron level. This will result in a small number of stairs supplemented by the necessary ramps for those unable (or unwilling) to use the steps, which should be no more than 5 or 6. The raising of this floor means that baggage can be loaded on to carousels underneath the floor level, with bags coming up from underneath on to the carousel. As before, the ground floor is entirely arrivals, and a video was shown (which later may appear on the airport website), showing a very spacious area and huge Border Force area with 12 desks - and of these 5 can be converted to E Desks if Border Force want them. There is a 250% capacity increase with a large area available for queuing (where necessary). The upper floor remains a Departures area, with further seating, new gates and gate seating overlooking the airfield, dedicated stairs down to aircraft and in future, further retail outlets. Approximately 70m of the little loved walkway along the apron will be removed. The terminal has been designed to enable further extensions along the apron as and when required and each will result in more of the walkway being removed.

Fuel Farm: Approaching the airport a large lifting crane was visible at the fuel farm. This relates to the current installation of 2 new 200,000 litre Jet fuel storage tanks, to add to the existing 3 x 150,000 litre tanks, providing 3 days fuel storage. LBA own these tanks, but the fuel in them is bought by the airlines, who can negotiate their own deals. Airlines then access the fuel as required with payment made to LBA. This arrangement benefits both LBA and the airlines who can secure better value for money on the fuel they buy.

Bus services: The Flying Tiger contract expires in October so LBA are currently negotiating with the bus operator with a view to securing improved services under any new contract. These include express bus services into Leeds (and presumably Bradford), (although how express they will be given traffic issues remains to be seen!), more direct routes between the airport and Bradford, bus pick ups at Apperley Bridge Station, new branding on the services and a new Service Level Agreement enabling LBA to take necessary action to ensure services are run efficiently. There is of course also the option to consider other bus operators.

Red Route: This came into effect a month ago and is policed by Leeds City Council using a camera car. However, Airport Police are authorised to also patrol the road and issue tickets where necessary on behalf of Leeds City Council. In the future, fixed cameras may be introduced to monitor the red route areas. It was notable today that there was no sign of any vehicle stood at the roadside on this stretch of road, for any reason, which I think is a first!

AVRO Memorial: A memorial, remembering the employees of the adjacent AVRO Shadow Factory (where Avro Anson, Lancaster and York aircraft were built during and after the war) is planned and will be located outside the new terminal development. It is planned to unveil this memorial in 2021, which is the 90th anniversary of the airfield and the 80th anniversary of the AVRO factory. The current 609 squadron memorial will remain where it is, inside the current terminal building.

Parkway Station/Airport Road Link: Leeds City Council were present at the meeting to provide a talk on the proposals for both the Parkway Station and Road Link options. Key points to note were that:-
a) planning is already underway for road improvement to the Leeds Outer Ring Road (A6120) between Dawsons Corner, Pudsey and the A65 at Broadway, Horsforth, which will then tie in with future development of the link road and presumably the stretch of A65 between the Ring Road roundabout and the proposed starting point for either Option A or B. In addition, works are to be carried out to enhance the junctions at Fink Hill (Horsforth), Dyneley Arms (Pool, junction with the A660) and also the signalling systems along the entire A65 corridor between Leeds and Guiseley, to speed up traffic flows.
b) The use of shuttle buses between the Parkway Station and Airport, will be free of charge;
c) Design work on the access from Parkway Station to the airport is still being worked on given that the station will be built before the (possible) link road. Thereby a temporary means of reaching the airport will be required, either via Scotland Lane (which I assume would require some widening to enable a bus to use it) or by crossing Scotland Lane (across, over or under) and then accessing the airport via the long stay car parks and Whitehouse Lane, as at present;
d) An artists impression of the Parkway Station design was shown - buildings having a sequence of arched roofs in the shape of barns, as an acknowledgement to the rural area. Each platform would have two over-sized lifts up to ground level, plus stairs. (No escalators) and there will be a bridge over the railway line above the station.
e) The consultation period for both ends 12th April 2019.

Trains: It was confirmed that from May 15th, the Leeds to Harrogate/Knaresborough/York line will have an improved service, increasing to 3 trains per hour (with the future intention being a further increase to 4 trains per hour). Also that from December 8th, there will be the long awaited significant increase in through trains to Harrogate from London Kings Cross, via Leeds, using the new Hitachi Azumo trains, subject to these being delivered on time by the manufacturer. Not currently directly related to LBA, but an important development for the future.

Brexit: (Of course! It had to be included.....)

In response to a question raised, LBA confirmed that irrespective of the outcome of Brexit, LBA operations will continue as they are, and the only 'issue' to be resolved will relate to the requirements of Border Force, which will change according to deal (and if so which deal) or no deal. Effectively LBA await their instructions so they can sort out the process and necessary signage with Border Force.

Hope you all find that of some interest. We were promised more relating to route development etc. at the next meeting when the new Aviation and Commercial Director is in place.

 

[louis_walton]

Thanks @White Heather for this it will never not be one of my favourite reads! No news regarding route development is no surprise after the BMI blow. They probably stopped looking as they believed they found the answer to their business route related issues. It is really great to finally see REAL progress being made for LBA in regards to expansion. For too long we have sat falling behind and really exciting times are waiting for us. As usual I shall finish with this... Easyjet will solve all our issues or a heavier Ryanair expansion! One thing that really makes LBA lack is no business routes which we really need, there are too many empty slots that can be filled all we need now is the airlines. Surely with the new road link, rail link and expansion airlines will finally begin to see Leeds as an airport to fly into.

 

[LBA8098]

Apron expansion news would be welcome!!!

 

[jw2k]

Thanks @White Heather for the update!