Pakistan International Airlines

[scousefowler]

good evening all

i dont really understand why they would drop the route unless it is not profitable? Is this the case?

can anyone explain?

also if it is profitable then surely another airline will look to step in?

regards

 

[wawkrk]

Maybe LBA was diluting Manchester traffic too much. If you add to that the end of the road for the problematic and ageing A310,then maybe this is the reason. I understand they could use the 777-200 from LBA but I think they only have about 2 airframes with the extra power.
I don't know how many pax used LBA, but almost all will go to Manchester now. Maybe a few through AMS.
Non through LHR anymore of course.

 

[scousefowler]

thanks for the reply

so it sounds like a problem with equipment, rather than lack of demand or not being viable is that it?

or its more profitable to run the 777 from manchester?

there is demand from lba though for the service surely? whats the chance of jet2?

regards

 

[wawkrk]

Hi scousefowler,

Yes, probably it would work with Jet2. I cannot imagine many pax are frequent flyers and need to gain airmiles with PIA.Maybe Jet2 could also make it work via Dubai.The 757 could easily fly this route. I don't know what the crewing implications would be though.It really needs to be point to point for Jet2 not having onward connections.It would be great if they could ever join an alliance for their scheduled flights.

 

[tleeds]

PIA currently operate over 10 A310's which is around a quarter of all their fleet. They will almost definitely have to find a replacement for these aircraft or they drop all the routes these aircraft operate and so the dropping of the LBA route along with the others could just be temporary whilst they find replacement aircraft. The A330 family looks good on the replacement side as does Boeings 777 family.

 

[wawkrk]

I can't remember where the attached chart came from but I seem to remember it was Boeing.
The distances as I understand it are maximum take off weight in typical standard conditions.
QNH 1013mb temp 21degC dry runway.
Maybe someone else can comment on this I am not an expert. The 777-200 performs better than the A330-200.You can also see why Jet 733's cannot reach TFS.

 

[jason1-11]

If it is purely type then the Dreamliner can't come quick enough, but doubt PIA can afford the lease costs on them.

Surely it's time LBIA Management did something about the runway performance and runway infrastucture. Apart from it being akin to a Victorian coble street, too many types have performance issues whilst operating ex LBIA : ie A321 over heating brakes on landing, 757 CAT1 only and many other operating restrictions on other types etc.

An airport with a sub standard runway is surely an invitation to operate out of other airports and no one wants that.

 

[tleeds]

[offtopic]I didn't know the problems with LBA's runway was that bad Jason1-11. Thats probably the reason why TCX are quite reluctant to increase to the A321 when they considered it, and with 757's becoming a thing of the past :sad: then the A321 is the next nearest thing, apart from the B739 which is rare to find, especially in the UK.[/offtopic]

 

[User0001]

Perhaps this is a case of the most obvious explanation staring us all in the face. The cost of aviation fuel has rocketed and the A310 aircraft are going to burn more fuel per seat than the 777. There comes a point where it simply becomes more economic to put the most number of seats you can onto the most fuel efficient aircraft you have. Economically speaking, operating the North of England programme out of MAN on 777-300s is probably the safe bet in the current climate.
I'm sure the airport management will be disapointed, but at 35,000 passengers a year, it was always a relatively small operation.

 

[Aviador]

[offtopic]I didn't know the problems with LBA's runway was that bad Jason1-11. Thats probably the reason why TCX are quite reluctant to increase to the A321 when they considered it, and with 757's becoming a thing of the past :sad: then the A321 is the next nearest thing, apart from the B739 which is rare to find, especially in the UK.[/offtopic]

Hi tomleeds, you might not have read this before so have a look. It's on the Infrastructure & Developments thread.

topic100-180.html

 

[tleeds]

okayy cheers Aviador.

 

[Moo2009]

Slightly off topic but a friend of mine flew Ryanair to Arricife from LBA and he said that passengers could not sit in the first five rows for operational reasons

 

[wawkrk]

It's usually rows 3 and 4 I think to improve trim. If the flight is full, then you can use these rows.

 

[White Heather]

Chitty is right in that seat availability is shown as nil, until February 2012 when suddenly the availability is there again. Perhaps the route is to be suspended, rather than completely withdrawn? It really does seem odd, but I can't for one minute believe all the flights are full, so it certainly looks as though from June there will be no service, but why the availability in February? It is still shown as operated by an A310 incidentally.

 

[tleeds]

At least it is showing to re-commence again in Feb2012 rather than them discontinuing of the route altogether. I wonder if there is some kind of aircraft shortage whilst they gradually phase out the A310... or it could be a colossal computer error.. :dunno:

 

[White Heather]

I have checked today with a contact of mine at LBA and she says she knows nothing about this at all, so the mystery deepens. She would definitely know if PIA had formally told LBA the service was to cease. There is nothing on the PIA website to indicate the route is to be pulled and 'Bradford' still appears on their international route map - still a bone of contention for those of us in Leeds! (Actually it looks like someone sketched their map of the world from memory!) Their last press release was last year. The web site is terrible, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a computer error, but if so it isn't going to do much for their bookings is it?

 

[tleeds]

According to a few articles that I have research their revenue was up but losses were drastically down. In a few other articles as well apparently PIA employees have been guaranteed a pay rise and the airline is in discussions with the Pakistani government to increase and renew their fleet. Four very contrasting stories here..

Loss & Revenue Article: http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... t=5/4/2011
Employees: http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... =5/10/2011
Aircraft: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg5_9

Apologises their all in separate links...

 

[eastcoaster]

The flights are showing as recommencing in November now??? Very strange.

 

[tleeds]

Well on this booking system:
http://www.piac.com.pk/WeeklyFlightSche ... 0-JUL-2011
I can book flights mid July, or am I missing the dates of the 'supposed stopping' of the route?

I can go up to 7th of April 2012 until there are no-more flights :dunno:

 

[White Heather]

Yes, but when you look at Seat Availability, it shows no Business Class and no Economy class seats available, so that might be a computer error.