Pakistan International Airlines

[Jordan-34092]

In my opinion the airline needs banning full stop, a terrible airline, right shambles, no faith in them, good riddance to bad rubbish and Nicholas1992 i agree the airline management are not reliable, terrible airline to fly, terrible airline to work with i'm told by a servisair friend at Leeds, Ryanair are more cooperative and easier to get along with and that isn't exactly an easy task in it self. I know people who have said they rather fly Airblue from Manchester than LBA with PIA and they live 3 miles from the airport, and i don't blame them.

 

[michael]

In my opinion the airline needs banning full stop, a terrible airline, right shambles, no faith in them, good riddance to bad rubbish and Nicholas1992 i agree the airline management are not reliable, terrible airline to fly, terrible airline to work with i'm told by a servisair friend at Leeds, Ryanair are more cooperative and easier to get along with and that isn't exactly an easy task in it self. I know people who have said they rather fly Airblue from Manchester than LBA with PIA and they live 3 miles from the airport, and i don't blame them.

Ok, so Concorde Lover it's fair to say you don't like PIA and have no faith in them etc etc. Fair enough, you won't be on your own but I think a more level headed approach is needed as if, and it is if, PIA are banned from this part of the world it's not only LBA who will be effected - unless A310's are banned and B777's aren't. Given that we assume a full ban the passengers who would travel on 777's from MAN, BHX, LHR and GLA cannot all get on AirBlue A319's. Ok some will go via the middle east and Turkey using other carriers but if that happens it may then be the time for LBA management to start making themselves heard to the fact that, as far as I'm aware, the route has worked for PIA, the catchment area is there for a regular service and LBA can handle B767's and A330's. IF a ban were to take place dependant on the length of the ban you'd think such as Emirates, Etihad, Turkish etc may look to fill the gap and while they may have bases over the hill there will come a time when even MAN has enough to cope with so LBA may become an option for them. Given that PIA serve MAN and LBA why couldn't these other airlines do the same?
A final option I suppose is that the PIA B777 appears if only the A310's are banned. And a final final option........PIA get their maintentance in order and we can all live happily ever after. :drinks:

 

[TheLocalYokel]

And a final final option........PIA get their maintentance in order and we can all live happily ever after.

Much the best option.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I think we have to look at this from a number of different perspectives and have a number of clear end strategies. The permutations and possibilities for the future of this route are fraught with difficulties and run much deeper than the arguments levelled at PIA.

From the point of view of LBA, is this a route that the airport wishes to continue? If so, a number of different outcomes should be explored - and explored quickly.

Of course, the best outcome for everyone is that PIA get a grip and the EU does not impose a ban on their European operations. In that eventuality, the future of the route can be considered to be more rosey and built upon. If PIA are indeed banned from European airspace, Pakistan suddenly becomes a very isolated place. As Michael rightly says, all of the capacity PIA provide from LHR, BHX, MAN, GLA, LBA etc etc cannot be taken up by Air Blue A319's. For political reasons, western airlines do not operate currently into Pakistan, so the traditional hubs such as LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS are also unable to help in this respect.

With that in mind, one has to look at the actual hub entry points to Pakistan. These are namely: Doha; Dubai; Abu Dhabi; Bahrain; Istanbul and Jeddah. Whilst the likes of LHR and MAN have a degree of service to these hubs, there would not necessarily be enough slack to take up the demand for travel between the UK and Pakistan. Qatar and Ethiad would probably see some form of uptake on their services out of MAN and could theoretically expand to larger aircraft providing more capacity but this would still not cover the full amount.

So, where do the LBA pax go? Some will find passage through other airports but, I suspect, some will not be able to travel. Alternative measures should be sought as a temporary or permanent replacement. This is why I have previously stated that this would be a good time to re-explore the Dubai option and, potentially, a Turkish option via Istanbul. If travel between the UK and Pakistan is necessary for people, additions of this variety would be a success based on the current level of service provided by PIA from LBA and might even just be the kicking off point for a daily Dubai as, inevitably, others would start using the service.

The key to any alternative service would be through the marketing of the route and connections. If marketed properly, there is no reason why it could not be a success.

So, to reply to Concorde Lover's post, I would advise caution. Obviously, the loss of airlines and routes to the LBA portfolio is disappointing and, wherever possible, we would want PIA to continue - with good level of service and with one eye towards improving the service in the medium to long term. However, if LBA does lose the airline, it is not sensible to sit back and say "good riddance to bad rubbish" as we are all worse off. However, if LBA is able to use the loss of PIA as a driver of change and growth for the better of everyone, it may just mean that losing PIA would not be felt quite as hard.

 

[ravmanlba]

Excellent post. Does anyone know the political reasons for western airlines not flying into Pakistan?

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Don't hold me to it, but i would hazard a guss something to do with the security risk to crews whilst down route. I know BA do a route in africa where they literally land, 8 hours sleep, 12 hours after landing it's back in the air heading to london. Thats to do with a health risk inside the country i believe (again not to be held).

 

[Jordan-34092]

Like Nicholas1992 has said it's security risks. But also like you have stated Ravmanlba it can also boil political reasons, governments can ban an airline if need be from operating into a country or regarding another matter, look at the recent example of the Chinese government banning Chinese airline's from buying Airbus aircraft. I don't think any western airline will operate into Pakistan at this time, specially with recent events taking place, Osma Bin Larden & killing of pakistan officals on the boarder.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

At one time, most of the traditional European airlines flew into Pakistan to some extent. The advent of Emirates and the hub at Dubai diluted the demand in continental Europe somewhat, there being a significantly smaller Pakistani community in most European countries. This led to the withdrawal of most services that had survived the political unrest between Pakistan and the West during the 90's when the US imposed sanctions on Pakistan due to continued nuclear development (anyone see a pattern developing?). The last service to operate was BA LHR-ISB which was withdrawn following significant increases in militant activity within Pakistan and, in particular, Islamabad. The Pakistan government could not guarantee the safety of BA and the flight was withdrawn. A quick look at the travel advice page for Pakistan highlights the scale of the problem though, I must point out, very few specific threats have been issued or attacks carried out on Western visitors. Tensions between Pakistan and the West have been very high for the past 12 months or so for obvious reasons.

There is, of course, my long standing argument that people will always prefer to travel with their own airline. As such, considering the demographic of passengers travelling between the UK and Pakistan, PIA are always going to comfortably cover other airlines when it comes to flight loads - as was the case when both PIA and BA operated LHR-ISB. However, in the eventuality that PIA are banned from Europe, airlines based in predominantly Muslim countries will be the ones who are likely to pick up the load, regardless of whether BA or the likes reopen the route. Indeed, Qatar Airways are already quite agressively marketing UK - Pakistan via Doha. And this is the point I was making. Qatar Airways have seen the situation and are preparing for it early on. If LBA wishes to keep the route, then it too has to plan now for what happens in every eventuality.

With regards Chinese airlines not buying from Airbus, that is a far different scenario and one that will, in time, see Chinese airlines using only Chinese built equipment. I do not think it is entirely coincidental that the COMAC C919 (a project that Ryanair are involved in) has a similar airframe to the Airbus A320. Currently, Chinese companies do not have products that can compete with larger Airbus and Boeing models and I think it will be a while yet before the Chinese are able to totally cut ties with them. Traditionally, the Chinese bought Russian when it came to long haul and high capacity, but this is also not available to them at present. Their use of European and American built technology is one of necessity rather than economy. Completely off topic but I thought I would add it anyway.

 

[Bigman]

I wonder if Air Blue would consider operating from LBA if PIA get the big thumbs down?

The airline I would love to see at LBA is Turkish, as they offer connections all over Asia. Modern fleet as well.

 

[masere]

775 scheduled for 16.30 just flying over Leeds now - only 5 hours late!

Followed by Jet2 348 around 1 hour ahead of schedule.

Quite a contrast isn't it?

 

[Jordan-34092]

Told you the airline has plans and this is part of it.

 

[aroosh]

Concorde Lover seems to have quite an insight. Id suggest a name change from Concorde lover to PIA Hater might be appropriate.

Anyone ever flown on Emirates out of Pakistan. I know people who have sworn off emirates too.

oh and still no 777?

=)

 

[EX9]

Looking at flight trackers on the Internet is not exactly an insight. Its a judgement based on assumption and no fact, though what on earth they do to make it late every time is beyond me. Its ever since they made changes to the times, must have messed something up in a schedule.

 

[SNOWMAN]

Looking at flight trackers on the Internet is not exactly an insight. Its a judgement based on assumption and no fact, though what on earth they do to make it late every time is beyond me. Its ever since they made changes to the times, must have messed something up in a schedule.

could it be they are just short of aircraft with all there problems,i for one are happy they are still flying the lba route.as i am sure the airport management is.

 

[White Heather]

I would second that. Frankly I would rather have PIA operating late than not at all. Whatever problems they have, they are a national flag carrier and LBA needs more of those, not less. I for one hope that they resolve their problems, continue flying into Europe and continue to develop their route from LBA. As for PIA deliberately operating late in order to cause complaints and give them an excuse to leave LBA, well to be honest that is just laughable. PIA invested a lot of money in operating from LBA and the route is doing well. If that changed and they wanted to leave, they would just leave! Why on Earth would they deliberately operate late??

 

[Aviador]

Re PIA time keeping, it has to be said that Pakistani culture is not one of time keeping and they operate in a similar way as the Spanish. The Spanish proverb "mañana mañana" meaning tomorrow tomorrow springs to mind. It might not be acceptable here in the UK but if it's considered normal by the Pakistani community here in the UK and in Pakistan than surely that makes it quite acceptable?

 

[Jordan-34092]

Better no PIA to be frank.

 

[eastcoaster]

Concorde lover. Those 36000+ plus pax who use the service and those amongst us who depend on it for their livelihood would disagree and are beginning to find your incessant negative comments and hatred of the airline a little tedious and immature, let alone harmful and damaging.

 

[SNOWMAN]

Better no PIA to be frank.

what a plonker

 

[Jordan-34092]

Better no PIA to be frank.

what a plonker

Say's you and it's a good job I reported it to the airport and council regarding noise issues.

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