Pakistan International Airlines

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Tonight's outbound was 87 souls on board, so probably 70 or so fare paying pax.

Oh dear, this is getting worse, I don't think we will be seeing B777 anytime soon at LBA from PIA who have got big problems right now after making those expensive losses. I don't think the LBA-ISB route is under threat, but I think PIA may consider lowering the 3x week to 2x week. I guess it is possible to have maybe just a 1x/2x week service using a B777. not a 3x week.

I would love to see PIAs 777 at LBA or even a newer A310, the current A310 they are using are very outdated and don't provide much inflight entertainment which is very annoying on the ISB-LBA leg where most passengers are awake, unlike the LBA-ISB leg when most passengers are asleep.

 

[ex_crew]

The route must be performing if a larger aircraft is seriously being considered.

I admire your optimism, but perhaps the larger unit was being considered when load factors were over 90%. You only need to consult the CAA route stats for the last 12 months to see that in the off peak months a 75% LF was the norm with circa 95% in the peak months and an impressive growth trend (considering the seasonal fluctuation) compared to other stations. Whilst as stated in my previous posts there is a general softening of the UK-PK market, a 74% LF in peak periods (July and August are "dry" months where there is a significant VFR movement) will be viewed in context of the market in general and other UK stations performance, along with revenues gained which is key to PIA's recovery plan under Capt Haroon. His view, rightly or wrongly is that increasing revenue for the company will allow a greater overhead absorption, particuarily for a company that has the highest employee to aircraft ratio in the world, with a heavily unionised workforce. Putting an aircraft with 329 seats onto a route that in a peak month averages 136 adds cost, not revenue. Until the market recovers and national security concerns are offset in Pakistan, off peak months will be lean to say the least. August figures will be interesting to review to consider what trends are forming.

There is now an independent review instigated by the government of Pakistan in the last week looking at the performance of PIA (and its management) which will undoubtedly look at decisions made by the current management regime and the competence of its recovery plan.


PIA is a state owned entity making a 30m loss. If LBA as a route does not show it adds value to PIA's operation compared to its previous



centralisation in MAN, then it will be under pressure.






Unfortunately I dont speak Urdu but I do speak English and your reply was very interesting indeed, thankyou for being so informative.

At least there is room for improvement on this route, it may mean a reductive in rotations. If there was only one service a week and bad loads then it could of been a lot worse. Lets hope the route picks up, my feeling is that it will.

I don't have a crystal ball so time will tell, but PIA's LBA operation will be viewed as a statistic, as part of the bigger picture.

If you speak Urdu, then this interview with Haroon indicates the complexities, both political and financial that PIA face, and a clear message that Haroons recovery plan is under pressure.
http://pkonweb.com/2009/08/22/bolta-pakistan-35/

 

[harehills]

Another reason why i think the route isnt doing so well at the moment is that ramadan has begun its hard enough going without food and water for 17 hours in the UK its alot harder in the heat of Pakistan that is putting people off from travelling to Pakistan

 

[Aviador]

This would have the same effect on flights from other UK airports as well wouldn't it?

 

[drpiruthivi]

What happened to the proposal about DXB stopover by PIA. Anybody has updates?

 

[Aviador]

Welcome to Forums4airports.com
Thank you for joining in the discussions 'drpiruthivi', that's a good point.

There were previously lots of rumours regarding the possibility of flights to DXB. The comments over the previous couple of pages here might suggest that this is more likely now if it is indeed the case that PIA need to change the aircraft type sooner rather than later. If passenger numbers have dropped off slightly, a stopover in DXB en route to ISB would presumably help maintain passenger numbers on the service whilst upgrading the aircraft type at the same time.

 

[ex_crew]

Another reason why i think the route isnt doing so well at the moment is that ramadan has begun its hard enough going without food and water for 17 hours in the UK its alot harder in the heat of Pakistan that is putting people off from travelling to Pakistan

It never affected the flights to ISB that I worked on, infact I can remember it was chaos on-board because the flights
were at night, everybody ate and drank as much as they could before the morning.

 

[harehills]

in regard to a stopover in DXB i dont think that would work as passengers travelling to ISB would just travn from MAN because of the convenience. This was proved earlier this year when PIA stated flights from stanstead to Pakistan via DXB the service only lasted a month from what i heard there had been an outbound with 10 fare-pying pax onboard. i have also read that PIA has gone into a codeshare agreement with American Airlines. This is bad news for LBIA as AA operate from MAN and if this agreement increases passener numbers at MAN we could be loosing a rotation or even the route so that PIA can cater for this demand. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ex_crew]

in regard to a stopover in DXB i dont think that would work as passengers travelling to ISB would just travn from MAN because of the convenience. This was proved earlier this year when PIA stated flights from stanstead to Pakistan via DXB the service only lasted a month from what i heard there had been an outbound with 10 fare-pying pax onboard. i have also read that PIA has gone into a codeshare agreement with American Airlines. This is bad news for LBIA as AA operate from MAN and if this agreement increases passener numbers at MAN we could be loosing a rotation or even the route so that PIA can cater for this demand. We'll just have to wait and see.

PIA operate to a lot of cities from DXB to Pakistan so this would be an alternative transit point instead of changing in ISB. A lot of people like to stop off in DXB for a weekend and even just for duty free.

Maybe the route from Stansted didn't work because they are lots of other options to DXB from that catchment area.

The codeshare agreement has yet to be agreed. I dont see it having any impact on the LBA/ISB route, hopefully I am right.

 

[backtrack]

I hope you are right. If anything i hope we could get AA operating into LBA, but with their ops from MAN, maybe im getting ahead of myself!

I dont see why the DXB route wouldnt work from Leeds. Leeds urgently needs a regular route to the USA, and another to Dubai in my view.

 

[Bigman]

It wouldn't be the first national flag carrier to rethink the importance of Manchester would it. Would PIA really be a good option to the USA given current global activities and tensions?

 

[ex_crew]

Thinking ahead of the game hear, I think that a good option for PIA would be to operate a service onto Totonto from Leeds.
We need the YYZ back, lots of Pakistani Immigrants in Canada, seems the perfect option.

 

[drpiruthivi]

Personally I feel, if the rules permit, DXB stopover with couple of codesharing with EK out of DXB will give a massive boost to the loads. Provided EK doesn't fly to LBA, it must be possible.

 

[backtrack]

Toronto has got to be a good option. I did hear quite a time ago now however, that Air Transat were to start services with an A310. Heard nothing since so cant see it happening now.

I see where you are coming from with PIA in America, but to be honest they are hardly the best of friends at the best of times, nevermind when there is the current wars on terror and all that going on.

Codesharing with EK im not so sure about. Is EK's operations from MAN with the B777 suffice for demand from this area? If anything, i would hope EK, start a once/twice/thrice weekly service to DXB, possibly using the slightly smaller A330's.

 

[ex_crew]

If anything, i would hope EK, start a once/twice/thrice weekly service to DXB, possibly using the slightly smaller A330's.

I can't see Emirates showing an interest in LBA, they already have Newcastle, Manchester, Birmingham ( I read somewhere that they are to operate the A380 into Brum).....Is there a market here??

 

[scousefowler]

380 into brum is a one off something to do with a new pier being opened so emirates are flying the 380 in that day.

can`t remember which day. early sept i think.

 

[White Heather]

Well if anyone can get Emirates interested in LBA it is our boss as he got them into NCL in the first place. Personally I don't care who does Dubai or what they do it with so long as they DO IT!!!

Soon would be nice!


PS: Apologies if my input has been rather sporadic recently, but those who were aware of my youngest daughter's plight will be pleased to note that after 2 years of waiting and in the nick of time, she got her lung transplant on the 15th August, and has just come out of intensive care at Great Ormond Street hospital. So as you can imagine, I am just grabbing any opportunity I can to come on here and catch up.

 

[Aviador]

The following posts have been moved to the the General Topic Thread in the Feedback Forum.

topic510.html

Sorry ex_crew I think I may have deleted your last post wishing Heather and her daughter all the best.

 

[ls27]

Anyone know what happened to the flight Sat pm. According to Islamadad deps it left ninety minutes late and arrived five hours late at LBA?

 

[lbia]

It went Tech on the way, diverting to Karachi. Left LBA around 02.30.