British Airways

[KARFA]

@tomleeds I don't have any breakdown of average loads for specific flights, but certainly what you posted looks reasonable based on my experience.

@Sherburnflyer92 bear in mind that we have not had consistently 3 rotations M-F & Sun and 2 on Sat all year. Also Since the introduction of domestic business class from April the A319 never operates as 143 seats config. Instead for business there is a blocked B and E seat. When I have tried to work out some rough figures I have assumed 5 rows of business (which seems reasonable in my experience) so a 133 seat config. Here are the figures I have roughly worked out:

 

[White Heather]

BA Manager of NCL and LBA BA operations has before said that a night stop would add addition costs to the route of around £500k.
This takes into consideration crewing overnight for hotel, food and transport during the night stop, aircraft parking, handling costs, slot changes etc...

Surely, aircraft parking and handling costs apply whether the aircraft is LBA based or LHR based - and I would have thought they would be higher costs at LHR than at LBA. The Hotel, Food and Transport costs can also be eliminated completely if they recruit crews to be based in the Leeds area, as BMi did in the past. Basing an aircraft to operate 7 days a week using crews whose homes are in the South East makes little sense

 

[KARFA]

The Hotel, Food and Transport costs can also be eliminated completely if they recruit crews to be based in the Leeds area, as BMi did in the past. Basing an aircraft to operate 7 days a week using crews whose homes are in the South East makes little sense

That is what BA do though. There are no UK/Europe cabin crews based anywhere other than LHR, LGW, and LCY. There used to be bases in EDI/GLA many years ago but that has long gone. If BA don't think it is justified to have regional based crew for domestic routes with 8+ rotations a day they certainly aren't going to do it for LBA.

 

[tleeds]

Surely, aircraft parking and handling costs apply whether the aircraft is LBA based or LHR based - and I would have thought they would be higher costs at LHR than at LBA. The Hotel, Food and Transport costs can also be eliminated completely if they recruit crews to be based in the Leeds area, as BMi did in the past. Basing an aircraft to operate 7 days a week using crews whose homes are in the South East makes little sense

Obviously at the current time BA find it more feasible and profitable to have the aircraft based at LHR for now to use on another first wave route.

Unfortunately they won’t be eliminated though. Just look at what KLM are doing. No more UK based crews. I believe flight deck crew have another 12months(?) until they all become AMS based.

Currently the BA EuroFleet crews we speak to say NCL and MAN are two of the best night stops. Will fully depend on what contracts can be drawn up with hotels and transport providers etc .

 

[KARFA]

Currently the BA EuroFleet crews we speak to say NCL and MAN are two of the best night stops. Will fully depend on what contracts can be drawn up with hotels and transport providers etc .

I have certainly heard that same comment from crew about MAN as well and enjoying stopping over there. MAN is actually Mixed Fleet (as are ABZ and BHD) whilst LBA and all other domestic routes are Euro Fleet.

For those that may not be aware, basically Euro Fleet are the older legacy crew and there is no longer any recruitment in to that crew. Euro Fleet only do short haul and domestic routes. All new cabin crew over recent times have gone in to Mixed Fleet and they do both short haul and long haul routes. MF crew are generally relatively young. As you may guess EF crew are on the better legacy contracts whilst MF are on new contracts which mean they work more and get paid less.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

@Sherburnflyer92 bear in mind that we have not had consistently 3 rotations M-F & Sun and 2 on Sat all year. Also Since the introduction of domestic business class from April the A319 never operates as 143 seats config. Instead for business there is a blocked B and E seat. When I have tried to work out some rough figures I have assumed 5 rows of business (which seems reasonable in my experience) so a 133 seat config. Here are the figures I have roughly worked out:

I mentioned 3 flights a day all year round as an ideal figure. I'm aware that we have increase decreases throughout the year and even with a night stopper we are likely to have less frequency on a Saturday then a Thursday or Monday for instance. I'm just working on an 'ideal' figure for simple maths.

Obviously on a two day operation when the Saturday 1343 leaves a little later the loads are slightly higher. The same goes for the other 2/3 days during the week when it’s a two day op.

But tom, we would hopefully with a scheduled night stopper, have a minimum of 3 services a day 6 days a week.

 

[tleeds]

To further KARFA’s point a lot of the Euro Fleet are ex Midlanders and therefore their basic contracts can not be touched.

Hence why they are so against Walsh and Cruz attempting to bully them out of BA altogether.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Mr Cruz and Mr Walsh need to get their act together with all crew full stop. The amount of BA crew leaving is horrendous - mixed fleet is like an artery that just won't stop bleeding. They are filling it from one end and can't stop the leaking at the other. Worldwide are either taking part time contracts then taking 'retirement' or leaving all together therefore making it harder and harder to fill their gaps and i won't start on Eurofleet.

I've heard horror stories from ex and present mixed fleet crew. Spoke to an ex worldwide crew who has said that mixed fleet are like the walking dead. It really is about time, in my opinion, they developed a new euro and worldwide fleet for the future rather then this mixed fleet boll***s.

The one thing i'd love to see; all 3 fleets stood in unison on strike; unfortunately cannot happen.

Sorry for the side track.

 

[AirBingley]

BA appear to be having one of their 'melt down' days today at Heathrow with delays and cancellations - so far its encouraging to see that LBA again has not had any cancellations although there is a nasty delay showing on the evening flight so this comment could change quite quickly........

 

[KARFA]

BA appear to be having one of their 'melt down' days today at Heathrow with delays and cancellations - so far its encouraging to see that LBA again has not had any cancellations although there is a nasty delay showing on the evening flight so this comment could change quite quickly........

Not quite a "BA meltdown", more to do with the fact that there is very low vis at LHR yesterday morning and this morning resulting in quite a few cancellations and slot delays which affect all operators there. Any cancellations and delays would have been done precisely to avoid a meltdown and having more aircraft arriving than the landing rate would allow for.

From Eurocontrol https://www.public.nm.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/index.html

02/11/2017 09:21

Aerodromes

London TMA (EGKK, EGLL )
Arrivals regulated due to low visibility.
Both EGLL and EGKK arrivals regulations have been extended until 1600UTC resulting in some high delays.

03/11/2017 09:17

Aerodromes

EGLL, EGKK (London Heathrow, Gatwick)
Arrivals regulated at reduced rate due to low visibility.
High delays.

When there are flow reductions all operators are asked to cancel flights at LHR, BA being the biggest operator tends to be impacted most. So far today the following have been cancelled:

Updated 1140

BA0554 LHR FCO 5 09:20 - Cancelled
BA0728 LHR GVA 5 09:35 - Cancelled
BA0588 LHR LIN 5 10:25 - Cancelled
BA1390 LHR MAN 5 10:30 - Cancelled
BA0834 LHR DUB 5 10:50 - Cancelled
BA0396 LHR BRU 5 11:00 - Cancelled
BA1440 LHR EDI 5 11:35 - Cancelled
BA0904 LHR FRA 5 11:35 - Cancelled
BA0974 LHR HAM 5 11:45 - Cancelled
BA0952 LHR MUC 5 12:10 - Cancelled
BA1308 LHR ABZ 5 12:10 - Cancelled
BA0754 LHR BSL 5 12:10 - Cancelled
BA1332 LHR NCL 5 12:20 - Cancelled
BA0702 LHR VIE 3 12:40 - Cancelled
BA0984 LHR TXL 5 12:45 - Cancelled
BA0314 LHR CDG 5 13:05 - Cancelled
BA0480 LHR BCN 3 13:20 - Cancelled
BA0954 LHR MUC 5 14:10 - Cancelled
BA0446 LHR AMS 5 14:20 - Cancelled
BA0718 LHR ZRH 5 15:15 - Cancelled
BA0229 LHR BWI 5 15:15 - Cancelled
BA0944 LHR DUS 5 15:50 - Cancelled
BA0768 LHR OSL 5 16:05 - Cancelled
BA0920 LHR STR 5 16:10 - Cancelled
BA1488 LHR GLA 5 17:00 - Cancelled
BA0520 LHR MAD 5 17:10 - Cancelled
BA1344 LHR LBA 5 17:40 - Cancelled

This was posted on twitter 2 hours ago by a controller at LHR who is a friend of mine, and you can see why these conditions lead to delays and cancellations:

https://twitter.com/adamspink/status/926353987380621312

Having said all that, I totally agree with you @AirBingley that it is very good to see LBA not having cancellations yesterday and today so far.

 

[KARFA]

Looks like we spoke too soon! This evenings BA1344/1345 rotation now cancelled

 

[AirBingley]

Looks like we spoke too soon! This evenings BA1344/1345 rotation now cancelled

At least we weren't first on the hitlist!

 

[lbaspotter]

For some unknown reason British Airways have already scheduled an Airbus A320 to operate the mid-day Heathrow-Leeds-Heathrow shuttle BA1342/1343 rotation on Wednesday, November 22nd.

Normally when BA's A320 have appeared its been due to a last minute swap so to get extra baggage tins up to LBA from LHR. But this one has appeared in the BA booking engine a few weeks in advance.

 

[a300boy]

I for one would not risk a long haul connection via Heathrow with such a wishy washy connection flight from Leeds.

 

[KARFA]

I for one would not risk a long haul connection via Heathrow with such a wishy washy connection flight from Leeds.

Wimp

I do this quite a few times with connections and to be fair I haven’t missed any yet.

 

[a300boy]

Fair enough ! It just seems unreliable from the posts we see.

 

[Coathanger16]

Fair enough ! It just seems unreliable from the posts we see.

Alas I guess that's from people commenting when things go wrong, but staying quiet when things go right. From all the media reports over the summer you'd think all our airports were in a constant state of meltdown

 

[Bigman]

Having flown back into Heathrow this year and then back to good old ‘string of beads’, I have to report that overall the whole process would have been quicker had we actually parked on T5 instead of T3. Despite being on a BA A380, we were dumped onto T3 with quite a few other BA long-hauls parked next to us. Obviously transfers from American Airlines flights are also treated thus.


The transfer involved around a half mile trek through T3 just to get to the transfer bus queue. A fair few minutes wait there to boot, but some good spotting opportunities from the bus!! There was then a long bus journey under various taxiways, including getting stuck behind a tug hauling baggage trolleys at around 3mph. Once we got to T5, more long walks and escalators. The queue to get through immigration was horrendous. The queue at security screening was no better. So, from getting off the plane at T3 to finally getting into the departure lounge in T5 took no less than 70 minutes!!


Luckily, I had a 3 hour connection before my flight home, but my friend had to run off well ahead and only just made his connection to Manny with minutes to spare from what he told me later. At least I had time to pop into a bar for some pretty tasty bangers and mash and a leisurely jar. Our flight also departed from Gate A8, which is right in the middle of the main lounge area.


The outbound experience had however been much easier as we arrived in T5 from Manny and the transfer to our long-haul flight was much quicker.


Overall, T5 is fine for transfers, as long as it a T5 to T5 transfer. Transfers involving other terminals should be planned with an adequate transfer margin. The main lounge area is also pretty good for spotting with good views out over both runways.

 

[Finger66]

Lets hope our new management team continue to be proactive and part of that to target BA re reliability, frequency and a night stopper amongst other things. The route hasnt grown to the level it has through a lack of demand so if the well documented short comings can be addressed then who knows? But as we know its not the easiest task in the world to change BA's mindset

 

[White Heather]

I think it is fair to say that LBA's new management are very much 'on the case' and share our concerns, especially regarding tactical cancellations. The night stopper is an on-going wish, as it has been since the route started, but BA obviously don't see that the costs will be justifiable, which is odd given that they do at all their other domestic departure points. Clearly the likes of EDI pax have a much longer trip to London by train ,which makes the air option more desirable, but MAN has just as good a rail option at we do in Leeds, and they sustain a night stopper and always have done. If LBA ever did get a night stopper, it would be interesting to see how many passengers who currently use the early MAN flight, would switch to the LBA night stopper? I know there are many business folk who go West to catch their early flight because there isn't one at LBA. Perhaps there lies the problem? Perhaps BA are concerned that LBA's gain might be MAN's loss.