Route Development & Rumours

[Brum X]

Or relying on KLM, Air France,Lufthansa,Swiss.SAS, Aer Lingus etc?.
That is probably why BHX is still in a position where it does not have to pay airlines to use it.Growth for growths sake can be a dangerous path as indeed we have found out. The likes of Easyjet are not going to open a base operating
new unproven routes whatever the potential without the back up of operating on the proven routes and their is only
so much cream to share around.If some people want a 1 or 2 airline airport fair enough.
That's just MY OPINION

But why are people assuming AF/KLM/LH/IB etc are doomed if an airline like Easyjet started, there is no proof what so ever that this is the case ?

For starters the above offer a different service via there hubs, something Easyjet could never offer so people will still use these services, even more so from an airport like BHX which lacks in so many long haul routes. For me both of these models of airline can flourish with a bit of give and take.

 

[58terminus]

For me both of these models of airline can flourish with a bit of give and take.

Big airlines in competition do not give and take. They try to take it all

 

[Brum X]

Big airlines in competition do not give and take. They try to take it all

Right then 58, we are stuck with the status quo then. Pages and pages of discussion as to why certain routes are not offered from BHX.

 

[David_itl]

I'm with Brum X with this. Pardon for doing this but look at MAN with legacy hub airline and low cost carriers:
Paris: AF/BE co-operation and easyJet
Amsterdam: KL and easyJet
Liisbon: TAP and Ryanair (with eastJet to start)
Frankfurt: Lufthansa and Ryanair
Munich: Luffthansa and easyJet
Copenhagen: SAS and easyJet
Madrid: Iberia (okay the Express brand) and Ryanair
Keflavik/Reykjavik: Icelandair and easyJet

The hub airlines are looking for a decent proportion to travel long-haul through their hubs, preferably in business class. The low-costers can provide volume passengers traveliing point-to-point on limited frequencies.

 

[Brum X]

I'm with Brum X with this. Pardon for doing this but look at MAN with legacy hub airline and low cost carriers:
Paris: AF/BE co-operation and easyJet
Amsterdam: KL and easyJet
Liisbon: TAP and Ryanair (with eastJet to start)
Frankfurt: Lufthansa and Ryanair
Munich: Luffthansa and easyJet
Copenhagen: SAS and easyJet
Madrid: Iberia (okay the Express brand) and Ryanair
Keflavik/Reykjavik: Icelandair and easyJet

The hub airlines are looking for a decent proportion to travel long-haul through their hubs, preferably in business class. The low-costers can provide volume passengers traveliing point-to-point on limited frequencies.

Thanks David, i know ive been talking a load of waffle over the last few days but there has to be something for BHX to grab here surely without upsetting too many people. BHX also is a buisness, its not just the airlines who want to make money and be a success.

Right im off to bed, no doubt with Easyjet playing on my mind and no lower than 19 degress in central Birmingham tonight, im gonna have a lovely night sleep.

 

[Brum X]

Oh and Primera Air, LOL

Have i just wasted another £130 on a flight that i didnt need.

 

[58terminus]

Right then 58, we are stuck with the status quo then. Pages and pages of discussion as to why certain routes are not offered from BHX.

Looks like it.Please be assured its nothing personal.At the end of the day we both want the same.
Wouldn't it be nice to open this thread and actually read about a real route development. Seems a long time since i
have deen the word daily or heaven forbid double daily .Here's hoping

 

[58terminus]

I'm with Brum X with this. Pardon for doing this but look at MAN with legacy hub airline and low cost carriers:

I do think we have to stop making these comparisons with MAN. It is in a different league and has been for a long time.
Even when i was spotting a long time ago (Viscounts/Vanguards} we were in awe of what MAN had to offer.
They were astute enough to see the potential and they developed it whilst BHX did virtually nothing from the end of the war until 1984.
In that time they became the go to airport for the north and midlands because there was nothing else comparable.That mindset is very difficult to change and it could be argued they are still 40 years ahead.
This is not because of the city of Manchester after all Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world but the city
is far down the list of the USA's biggest cities and hardly a tourist magnet.Like MAN they saw the potential of
their location went for it and left the rest a long way behind.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Thanks David, i know ive been talking a load of waffle over the last few days but there has to be something for BHX to grab here surely without upsetting too many people. BHX also is a buisness, its not just the airlines who want to make money and be a success.

I can see both points of view and there is no doubt that an aggressively expanding easyjet base would result in some casualties elsewhere but looking at the bigger picture I'm now asking myself, is it worth it? I'm with Brum X that in my opinion it's now time to stop protecting certain companies and let the market decide.

We have a long list of unserved routes most of which look like remaining so for a very long time, meanwhile customers travelling to those destinations are avoiding Birmingham and making motorway journeys elsewhere. Once customers get used to using other airports and airlines it can be difficult to get them back.

Ryanair and easyjet are Europe's two biggest airlines, they bring routes and they bring passengers in large numbers and I'm struggling to see any other airline(s) being able to fill the gaps in the route network in a relatively short space of time. Norwegian failed, Vueling failed and it's not looking particularly good for the future of Primera, how many more failures must we endure until the penny finally drops?

I agree with David that the full service carriers target a different type of customer with a larger percentage of those connecting on to long haul. We already have Ryanair coexisting with Iberia to Madrid, why should FRA, MUC, AMS, CDG etc be any different?

 

[nwoody2001]

Big airlines in competition do not give and take. They try to take it all

Flybe compete with KLM to Amsterdam and share flight with Air France to Paris

 

[nwoody2001]

I do think this whole discussion about easyjet being the answer is, to be blunt, a load of old boll*cks. Easyjet, like Ryanair or any other airline for that matter, are all the same, especially large scale loco-operators….

Everyone here just loves easyjet because they are the obvious missing airline, once they are in, there is no guarantee they will grow. I remember when Ryanair launched with the promise of a 10 aircraft base in 5 years, it has never made it past 5 aircraft!

I also think this whole panic associated with OMG WE DON’T HAVE 10% GROWTH, LETS GET ANOTHER AIRLINE IN is also equally bollocks. Over the last 3-5 years, the UK has not seen that many new major bases. Yes Luton has received some from VY/WZ etc and LPL has got one single unit from Air Blue, but otherwise, the only other new bases I can think of is Jet2 to both BHX and STN…. (of course I not counting primera here). New bases in UK regional airports are rare…

To my mind, the key here is get the low hanging fruit from existing airlines. Even after our recent cull, we have 36 airlines at BHC, 28 of which are year round. Bristol in comparison has 10 year round airlines, Liverpool only 6!!! But who could they be….

Flybe… they need to consolidate and grow at fewer hubs, BHX is one of their largest hubs so hopefully our prospects would be good in the long term. However, they are restricting so we need to make sure they manage that first. Ok, not many short term wins from them.

Ryanair… they obvious one for me. They have massive numbers or aircraft and ability. Unfortunately, Primera/Jet2 took a lot of the MON slots which meant we didn’t have the space to accommodate them this year but hopefully the opportunity is there in the near future

Jet2... a great and growing airline and who is investing a lot of time and money into BHX, I look forward to seeing what they have in store!

Yes, the last 12 months has been a bugger, and a shock to us having enjoyed consistent growth since 2010, but this blip does not mean the end of the world! We also have to remember is not just about getting airplanes in, we need the facilities and investment in to support this. The airport has grown 51% in passenger levels over the last 7 years, and last year, the strain truly started to show!... something about walking before we can run!

Primera aside, 2019 is looking positive with major growth proposed by both Jet2 and Tui. The airport is also investing £15m in the first phase of terminal expansion with a masterplan out soon.

We have the airlines already, we just need to provide the right infrastructure get the passenger in and encouraging existing airlines that BHX s where they want to grow!

 

[Coathanger16]

Unfortunately, Primera/Jet2 took a lot of the MON slots which meant we didn’t have the space to accommodate them this year

In what way was there no room to accommodate Ryanair? I can't exactly see BHX being slot constrained. Terminal/gate capacity? BHX still very much operates with waves of departures and arrivals with lulls of little traffic between - prime slots for away based aircraft to start new routes.

Yes we need to get our existing airlines to grow, but for destinations such as Lisbon, Athens, Stockholm, Oslo, etc that would require either airlines to expand into markets they don't currently serve at all from anywhere (Flybe & Jet2) or to get stagnant, reactive not proactive Ryanair to expand.

I often wonder with BHX is it just a case of waiting patiently? Just look at the amount of construction going on in Brum, both residential and offices, some of which are set to become Brum's most iconic buildings. The cities growing at a rate not seen in recent years and with that so will the airport.

Also worth pointing out that whilst new routes is great for growth, there's a hell of a lot of growth that can come from bulking up existing routes. How many destinations do we have that are served at less than a daily frequency? A lot of routes could see a doubling of capacity if they were daily. What frequency did Monarch used to serve Rome with? Jet2 are currently at 4 weekly, daily would see a 75% increase in capacity (reality check - is there enough demand for a daily Rome service and others?)

 

[IanFarquharson]

Ryanair was capacity in T2

 

[Ray Finkle]

Firstly, this is a family friendly forum and points can be made without the use of foul language. We all have an opinion and can all disagree but there really is no right or wrong answer.

Secondly, I don't see any panic, just people who are fed up with the constant stream of airlines arriving with huge promise then pulling out a year or two later. I think many are also fed up with having a huge (and growing)list of destinations that continue to remain unserved with several having been so for many, many years. Enough is enough.

Thirdly, Flybe........hopefully, Ryanair.......hopefully. I think we're fed up of hopefully, we want something done.

Flybe are in retreat and have their own issues. They have chopped and changed routes and frequencies over the last few years and now seem to be concentrating on certain other bases. Of course that is entirely thier choice and good luck to them but it doesn't help the situation that Birmigham finds itself in. A long term maybe but can we wait that long for a maybe?

Ryanair have had plenty of opportunity to do something special at BHX but for whatever reason have chosen not to, why suddenly now? For years they were totally stagnant offering very little outside of the basics despite the huge list of destinations desperately needed. Suddenly they were seemingly spurred into life by the arrival of others. Verona aside I'm struggling to think of a route that they've added/increased that wasn't added/increased by another airline. I definitely wouldn't say no to some growth from them but I'm not sure that I'd rely on a Ryanair hopefully.

Also I'm not sure that 'everyone on here just loves easyjet' and yes, there is no guarantee of growth but that can be said about any airline. Looking around at other UK easyjet bases there is a history of slow and steady growth at most of them, with a sprinkling of new routes and an extra based aircraft or two each year, why should a potential Birmingham base be any different?

I see an airline that is very well recognised across the whole of Europe, an airline that could bolster capacity on the sun routes, add frequencies to major city destinations and cover a chunk of the routes that so many other airports enjoy yet they continue to elude Birmingham. Maybe they won't be the answer and maybe a base would fail spectacularly but how do you know until you try?

Ryanair and Flybe have had numerous opportunities over the years and for whatever reason they have chosen not to take them. Time to move on.

Of course, that's just my opinion

 

[Coathanger16]

Ryanair was capacity in T2

Is it full throughout the day? Last time I went through, albeit in 2015 so things may have changed, T2 was practically deserted. And that was late morning/midday on a Saturday!

 

[nwoody2001]

In what way was there no room to accommodate Ryanair? I can't exactly see BHX being slot constrained. Terminal/gate capacity? BHX still very much operates with waves of departures and arrivals with lulls of little traffic between - prime slots for away based aircraft to start new routes.

Yes we need to get our existing airlines to grow, but for destinations such as Lisbon, Athens, Stockholm, Oslo, etc that would require either airlines to expand into markets they don't currently serve at all from anywhere (Flybe & Jet2) or to get stagnant, reactive not proactive Ryanair to expand.

I often wonder with BHX is it just a case of waiting patiently? Just look at the amount of construction going on in Brum, both residential and offices, some of which are set to become Brum's most iconic buildings. The cities growing at a rate not seen in recent years and with that so will the airport.

Also worth pointing out that whilst new routes is great for growth, there's a hell of a lot of growth that can come from bulking up existing routes. How many destinations do we have that are served at less than a daily frequency? A lot of routes could see a doubling of capacity if they were daily. What frequency did Monarch used to serve Rome with? Jet2 are currently at 4 weekly, daily would see a 75% increase in capacity (reality check - is there enough demand for a daily Rome service and others?)

Slots and runway capacity yes we have plenty, terminal capacity we have very little. You saw the state of the terminal last year and the complaints. As I said, it’s 1 thibg getting the airlines in, it’s another thing to have the infrastructure to accommodate them!

For god sake (hopefully not too foul), the airport was so incapable of dealing with that volume of pax, Jet2 opted to go self handling at BHX and thank for they did! That was never part of the original plan.

If we got a 4 a/c base at BHX next year, (say with the likes of easyJet) BHX wouldn’t be able to cope, and the pax would chose to use other airports because the experience would be so dire...

Bhx needs to expand with the growth, we have had the growth, we now need to expand to accom any more future growth

 

[Ray Finkle]

Which brings us back to the still vacant CEO position.

It's been over 12 months since Paul Kehoe stepped down and if it is true that he gave six months notice that's more than 18 months to find a suitable candidate and as yet nothing.

We've also seen the departure of the COO (David Winstanley) and the Director of Aviation Development (William Pearson) with Tom Screen taking over the role in an 'acting' capacity leaving him effectively doing the job of two people.

Obviously we don't know what is happening behind the scenes but these are crucial positions that I would have thought needed to be filled sooner rather than later.

 

[nwoody2001]

I agree but it’s worth waiting to find the right person ...I’d rather it be empty than filled with the wrong person without the drive and ability to push through their vision

 

[Jerry]

I agree but it’s worth waiting to find the right person ...I’d rather it be empty than filled with the wrong person without the drive and ability to push through their vision

It may be possible that the person they want is in a position elsewhere and can't move yet.

 

[58terminus]

Obviously we don't know what is happening behind the scenes but these are crucial positions that I would have thought needed to be filled sooner rather than later.

Knowing what is happening behind the scenes would be great but what i would really like to know is what happened
to create this vacuum and why it hasn't been filled.