Future Infrastructure Developments

[Aviador]

@White Heather thanks for the information, that makes sense. So the original idea is a non-starter.
Sharing our names and addresses here isn't going to work and it sounds like a GDPR nightmare.

Would you be prepared to draft a letter detailing the points we've raised and the letter could be distributed to the various groups where they can copy and email the council or MPs directly. If we all sing from the same hymn sheet it will have more weight than just chuntering about spotter wants and needs.

 

[Aviador]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out given that the Council have (recently) been supportive of the airport (and they are a Labour Council) whilst the MP has stated he opposes growth (and he is a Labour MP!). The two appear to be heading for conflict.

I would hope the council shows some common sense on the matter. They have the wider interests of the whole city to consider, not just the wishes of an MP and his constituents that only form part of the city.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

Bobby Ham...love your comments! It's what makes this forum so interesting. Thank you all for such great discussions.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

Personally I'd wait on the petition until we know what the situation is. What's sad...I inadvertently went on the first page of this topic from 10 years ago....same debates...nothings moved on. I would advise checking on all the various topics in the LBA forum from 2009. ...its so depressing as so little has changed.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Come on.....I have called him an idiot now its your turn.

MP announces opposition to Leeds Bradford Airport expansion

A local MP has announced that he will not be supporting Leeds Bradford Airport's expansion plans.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

This guy is my local MP and I know we dont do politics.
But it should be remembered as his party rip itself apart, this guy marked down as the compromise leader candidate and all this PR is to increase his profile.
Expect even more from him if the front runners cancel each other out. The airport gives him both a regional and national audience.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Just when you think the airport, the city, maybe taking one step forward with another line road, removing the stress from Yeadon Rawdon and surrounding areas, we go one step back. How do they think they'll attract any commuters to the new train station without a suitable link road? A link road, with a very large car park, suitable surface transport links, would encourage people onto the roads.

As many have pointed out, you can't blame the airport and go after the airport as a target for reducing emissions. Looks round. Commuters, especially this time of year, sit IDLE in traffic from Horsforth/Woodside right through to Rodley if not further. And as also pointed out - they've not stopped new builds. A source of additional traffic on a strained system.

Irony as its best - the local MP has wrote to the transport secretary demanding something be done, funding be put in place, for our transport system.

I've pointed out this before - i'll point it out again - without rapid surface transport in Leeds, people will continue to move from buses (if they don't live near the train stations) to cars. This causes buses to run late, thus driving more to cars, prices rise and so we go round.

Why was nothing done in the 1970's/1980's?

 

[XEROX]

Better idea would be to set up a gov.uk petition, and use that as leverage against Alex Sobel.

Petitions - UK Government and Parliament

Official online petitions in response to issues of the day, listing the number that got a Government response, and those that have been debated in the House of Parliament

petition.parliament.uk

 

[White Heather]

@White Heather thanks for the information, that makes sense. So the original idea is a non-starter.
Sharing our names and addresses here isn't going to work and it sounds like a GDPR nightmare.

Would you be prepared to draft a letter detailing the points we've raised and the letter could be distributed to the various groups where they can copy and email the council or MPs directly. If we all sing from the same hymn sheet it will have more weight than just chuntering about spotter wants and needs.

As far as any contact with the Council Planning Department is concerned, then everyone basically saying the same thing is OK. Back in the 90s we demonstrated support for 24 hour flying by collecting around 17000 statements of support from collection points in various locations - including at work, and inside the airport - but that required the total co-operation of airport management and access to airside in those days was much simpler than today. It meant visiting the airport every few days to collect the statements of support from dedicated collection points around the terminal, landside and in particular airside where we were able to capture the attention of bored passengers waiting to board their flights. The statement basically said that the signatory fully supported the application by LBA to overturn the restrictions on 24 hour operations etc. and there was then space for their name, and address, because each one of these statements was treated by the council as a letter of support and they had, therefore, to write a letter of acknowledgement to each and every person. In the end they were begging me to stop taking them letters of support as it was bringing down their IT system. I didn't! Something similar may be needed once the airport announce what they are planning for the terminal, but discussion with LBA management would be required first to see if they want such action taking on their behalf.

However, I am afraid that it won't be me co-ordinating things this time. I am way past all that at my age, and I have other things to deal with too. In the past there was a group of us doing it , not just me. I would possibly be happy to come up with a pertinent statement that could be used by people but quite honestly, that isn't rocket science as simple is best. People are more likely to sign a short and brief statement than something long and complicated and infinitely more likely to sign it than they are to sit down and write their own letter. However, this sort of thing requires thousands of statements of support to really make an impact, not just a few so it would probably be necessary to approach LBA again and see if once again they are able to assist. Where better to acquire support for a better terminal than within one that isn't up to scratch in many areas? However, I am not sure if these days they would feel able to do so. Times have changed. I am all that is left of the original support group and were it not for my place on the Consultative Committee and the ability to then report back to you guys on here, I would have packed it all in by now. It would take a group of people to do this sort of thing working together - effectively a new Airport Support Group.

As for writing to Alex Sobel MP, everyone writing basically the same letter, drafted by me, is not the way to deal with MPs (I used to deal with MP Enquiries at work for several years). Each person needs to write their own letter, saying what they wish to say to him and highlighting what they consider to be the critical points about the airport, growth, CO2 emissions, the importance of LBA to the city of Leeds, Leeds City Region, Yorkshire generally etc. Anyone who wants to take him to task with regard to his stance against LBA needs to do their own thing - and of course he will take more notice of his constituents than he will of those people whose constituency he doesn't represent. It's votes he is interested in, although not for 5 more years! However, he should reply to each and every letter. I would suggest though that if all the letters look similar, he is less likely to take them seriously and/or respond.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Don't worry @White Heather. Im using his political letter against the transport secretary against him.

How can you expect surface transport/public transport to improve around the area of Leeds without investing in roads to allow for buses to use them? Or allowing traffic to relieve pressure on Yeadon/Rawdon thus improving journey times on the buses, potentially getting more people onto the buses, cutting down the amount of traffic on the road. And not only that - having such a link could provide new bus links, all calling into the parkway station thus potentially getting more people off the road.

 

[LsS27]

By jove WH, that takes me back a long time. I took hundreds of those statement letters all round the city. I had them stacked in my highways van, and I dropped them off at Travel Agents where ever I was working all over the city and called to collect them when I returned to to work in the area some time later.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

This momentum sounds great but after being involved with a similar petition at the Bramhope green belt development please be prepared for it to come to nothing. The group got tens of thousands of responses and even had a judicial review and it all came to nothing. It took lots of time and energy and in the end was very bruising.

Times are changing and the climate change agenda...whether we like it or not...means that legislation on this is going to become even more stringent. The issue with LBA is that its difficult to prove that there's any real volume of business flights. It's a bucket and spade airport and FAM for Eastern Europe. We need more business connectivity but its chicken and egg...until we get these flights then there's no quantifiable business case.

As for Alex Sobel, unless you're a constituent then I'm afraid its sadly a waste of time.

 

[White Heather]

By jove WH, that takes me back a long time. I took hundreds of those statement letters all round the city. I had them stacked in my highways van, and I dropped them off at Travel Agents where ever I was working all over the city and called to collect them when I returned to to work in the area some time later.

Well in that case LsS27, many thanks for all your help back in the mid 90s. Job done. I was told afterwards by the airport MD (at the time) that the level of support convinced LCC to support the application, convinced the Government there was no need to call it in for yet another public inquiry (saving circa £2m and at least another 2 year delay ), and of course without the positive outcome we would still have an airport with no more than 1m passengers per year - probably considerably less now given the loss of domestic flying to a major extent. Certainly no Jet2 based at LBA and therefore no Jet2 Head Office based in Leeds. Imagine how many LESS jobs there would now be in and around LBA and the city itself?

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Sobel was Lead Councillor for Climate Change on LCC and I tackled him this year about an airport link road and the need to remove traffic from the yeadon/rawdon area, due to air pollution especially around local schools.
He seems to believe the Bike and walking will solve the problem and wants to turn back the clock to when everyone lives 5 mile from their employer, something I remember, but impossible today.
The Lib Dems want the Westminster seat back, so may be better to target this party as a climate issue meat and drink to them and they are very good at getting behind local issues.
The airport not really the problem, closing the airport wont solve air pollution or traffic issues locally.
Unfortunately the last election has shown City voters and town voters are pointing in different directions, not helpful for this issue.

 

[Len Fish]

Certainly no Jet2 based at LBA and therefore no Jet2 Head Office based in Leeds. Imagine how many LESS jobs there would now be in and around LBA and the city itself?

It seems to me that this obsession with green issues fuelled by a vociferous minority is blinding the Council and MP’s to their other responsibilities of developing the city and creating jobs and wealth.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

Completely agree WH, the 90s petition sounds brilliant but we are now in a whole new world of thinking in terms climate change and sustainability for any petition to gain the same momentum. Both the local council and national politics have a completely agenda. Even pushing business connectivity is tough because video conferencing is more prevalent.

 

[leedslad]

The really dumb thing is that to aid climate change avoidance we should be expanding Yorkshire airports...

By blocking expansion of LBA it means more people will drive further to Manc creating ground transportation pollution.

Leeds should be campaigning for a national cap by region on passenger numbers relative to population...

Therefore capping growth at Manc which has too many passengers relative to local population and growing LBA which has too few passengers relative to population.

That's before considering the economic blow to Leeds of constraining growth.

 

[gulftraveller]

It is airlines which decide where they will operate. If Manchester is capped, the airlines will not move to LBA or LPL. They will simply retreat to London and passengers from West Yorkshire will have to drive even further for their flights.

 

[a300boy]

Spoke to several local residents over the last week and found very little support for any of the link road plans.
What I found surprising is even after the various public events that were held most of them had little idea of the options and the benefits they would have brought.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

It's clear to me that the council have decided on what they want to do ...the train link station is their preferred option...and that's due to the benefit for commuter park and riders not airport traffic. I still believe that few airport pax will use this though if it goes ahead. It's just too fiddly and time consuming and ironically if you are using the train it would still be easier to get to MAN. As people have mentioned previously surveys show very few people use public transport to get to MAN airport ( and that's got great connections). Its still car and taxis due to luggage.
The link road therefore would have been the best option. I fear the airport has now reached its maximum potential. With no infrastructure in a heavy residential area, with horrendous road links and constant congestion I think we have to be realistic about its location and future growth.

 

[rmac]

I find it hard to understand going to LBA via the rail station is too fiddly and time consuming, easier to get to Manchester! When the LBA parkway station is built transfer from the terminal will be quick and undercover, and free and the journey into Leeds will take about 15 mins and cost about £3.20
Going to Manchester will take about 90 mins and cost about £17. I know what I would do. Last time I did a rail transfer was from Dusseldorf airport to the rail station, similar distance to Leeds airport although on Monorail and then into the city. Journey was crowded but smooth and certainly not 'fiddly'.