Future Infrastructure Developments

[Aviador]

I have no doubt every airport suffers from it's own downfalls for one reason or another. People on here often make comparisons with Manchester airport probably because it's the most frequently used airport in the north of England.

Whichever way we look at it, LBA is our local airport and we desperately need it to be drastically improved. Of course, as the airport grows it will encounter new challenges and problems that will need to be overcome as highlighted with Manchester airport and it's downfalls. LBA is still a huge embarrassment for the Leeds City Region. It's continued piecemeal investment is holding the airport back and with it inward investment to the city region is on trickle flow whilst other cities surrounding Leeds reap the rewards of having the air links and business connectivity in place. I think White Heather quoted in the region of 30 destinations lost within the last few years.

Aberdeen airport multi storey:

riggotts.co.uk

riggotts.co.uk

 

[User0001]

Bigman,

The next post is nothing personal, but, I feel I have to dispel some of these 'issues', people talk of:

OK user001. As a user of public transport, I basically have no choice other than to use the train to get to Manchester Airport. Every... and I mean every time I have travelled by train, I have suffered hold ups en route including a 10 minute wait outside the station for a platform on one occasion (hopefully the new platform will now resolve this issue).

Public transport are hardly the fault of MAN, but, as you say, a 4th platform is on the way, so its not as if nothing is being done about it.

I then have to drag a case up a ramp or up a lift to the first level, and then a second lift up to walkway level (going to T1 by the way)

Heavens forbid that the big evil conglomerate of MAN/MAG make people use a lift?!? How very dare they! Given there is no such thing as a straight line, unfortunately, humans will have to encounter a lift/stair/escalator once in a while. Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but, I genuinely have no idea why this is perceived as an issue.

On the last occasion I went, only 1 of the 3 travelators was working (I have never been there when 3/3 were working

I will concede that it is a pain in the ass that they often switch off the travelators, but, what I will say, its a bit rich that some are calling MAN a 'dump' compared to LBA, for things like travelators not working, but, doesn't LBA have an escalator that is never switched on? Slightly hypocritical to be honest.

so lots of walking required

As I have said, you cannot have 22 million people with over 16,000 ATM's per month in a small, easy to walk terminal. Its just not possible. Unfortunately I think this is something people are going to have to let go, you cannot have a small, LBA experience in a MAN sized airport. You think MAN has a lot of walking, then visit LAX, ICN, DEN, SIN and MIA, that is a LOT of walking.

The last 2 times I was there I have to wait for over 20 minutes to get through immigration

Granted, I do not know what time of day you arrived, but, 20 minutes in my opinion, is not that bad at all. Again, more people means longer waits. Its a fact of life and a by product of being busy, so, its a hang up you just have to let it go. Of course everyone would like to land, waltz off the plane and be outside in 5 mins, but, unless you are flying into a small airport like DSA on a linksair plane from BFS with 5 people onboard and no luggage, its never going to happen.

 

[Bigman]

I have only related my experiences as far as Manchester is concerned. If anyone ever goes to an airport that is perfect then please let me know...because I haven't. LBA certainly isn't as we all know.

 

[rmac]

Well said everyone - and all this started because the YEP reported new buses on the Long Stay Car Park, a positive article at that! If it had been critical we would have commented on how the local paper never says anything good about the local airport but instead we take the opportunity to list all the things we consider bad about the airport. Ah well - interesting reading, but Bigman sums it up well as no airport is perfect big or small. In the small town I live in we all moan about the small petrol station, the forecourt is far too small, the prices to high, the little shop holds us up, we say we are not going to use it anymore, but if we are not careful it will close and we have a 15 mile drive to the next one.

 

[User0001]

I have only related my experiences as far as Manchester is concerned. If anyone ever goes to an airport that is perfect then please let me know...because I haven't. LBA certainly isn't as we all know.

Which is fine, but, my comments were aimed at what seemed exaggerated problems aimed at MAN, and comparing it to LBA, which is a pointless comparison as far as Im concerned.

 

[Aviador]

rmac

The article about the new buses was a positive one but as I pointed out in my last post it proved the airport has no immediate plans to develop the terminal across to the pick-up and drop off zone as was previously planned.

User001

I know you get frustrated when people use Manchester as a comparison. Basically it's because most people from West Yorkshire will have used the airport at some point so they immediately compare their experience with their local airport. I agree it's not a great comparison when the two airports are in a different class. In a more appropriate thread I would be interested to see how people compare Manchester airport with Gatwick airport which has itself been in the press for all the wrong reasons over the last twelve months.

 

[White Heather]

Just to clarify my comment about MAN being a dump - I accept that is probably a bit over the top, and the airfield itself at MAN is clearly excellent. However - my last experience flying from MAN was to Montreal via LHR, using BMi. Drop off was fine outside the terminal. Check in was using a check in booth and had to wait for ages to get into one. The terminal was OK at that particular time, although rather uninspiring and drab inside. It looked 'old' and tired. However, I accept it gets some hammer.

Arriving back was another matter. Miles to walk off the plane, up and down stairs, long queue to clear immigration and when I finally got into baggage reclaim, a queue a mile long for the loo, which had precisely 3 cubicles to service hundreds of women who were just getting off long haul flights. Many trying to get in there already had their baggages with them and the place was total chaos and hugely unpleasant. The baggage reclaim area at LBA is poor, but at MAN it was complete mayhem and I couldn't even get close to the belt to recover my bags until I had watched them go round the system half a dozen times. Finally - and not MAN's fault - the usual accident on the M62 led to a walking pace journey for over 10 miles.

Since then, I had to pick my sister up there 2 years ago. I waited 45 minutes after her Emirates A380 landed before I drove into the terminal car park but it was still another 35 minutes before she emerged into the packed meet and greet area. She suffers from asthma and emphasemia and was close to collapse. No escalators working and no trollies available, nor anyone to assist - although granted the airport was extremely busy. We finally emerged into the pouring rain and got to the car to find that a combination of the car park exit design and road works meant the queue to get out snaked all the way through the car park and I couldn't even reverse out of the parking space. Once I did it took a further 25 minutes to get out - and the charge was well over £4. Finally (and typically) yet another accident on the M62 near Huddersfield meant we left MAN early afternoon and arrived in Leeds at 5pm having taken a joyous divert through Huddersfield, Elland, Halifax and Bradford.

As has been said, all airports have their issues. I suppose the point I would make is that people often quote on hear about so and so saying they will never use LBA again and will use MAN instead, but my experiences of MAN are anything but good and I have yet to ever use MAN without struggling to either get there, or get back, on the infernal M62.

 

[ridgeback]

Think Heather sums it up.

Getting to/from MAN is rarely straightforward often making a stressful day worse before its begun. From the Merseyside end I'm sure they find it fine, from West Yorkshire it isn't. Ive often considered that if MAN was to the NE of Greater Manchester rather than the SW it wld serve our needs fine but it isn't.

The layout of the airport is like the vast majority of airports that have expanded over the years - poor. Access to and from the train station from T3 being an example.

I have been to an awful lot of airports and wld say its at the bottom end from that point of view. Operationally its tremendous, little weather issues, 2 long runways, Cat 3 all round. Only the layout of the taxiways let it down out there - a right dogs dinner!

I have long thought that Leeds & Manchester themselves shd have a super high speed train link and that this shd incorporate the airport also. 25 mins Leeds-Picadilly with a further 10 to MAN, every 20 mins and as reliable as clockwork wld be a game changer.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

To me the public areas area just too claustrophobic. Low ceilings are the complete opposite of current airport design.

 

[Seasider]

As has already been said, it is silly to compare MAN with LBA for facilities. Most people who have said that they do not like MAN have quoted the journey there, as a big problem. Another reason not to compare them.
I have posted before that I have never had a problem finding a seat in the departure lounge when travelling from LBA. I may well travel at quiet times, but it is a matter of perception. If I was travelling to PMI on the 7am flight in the morning (Sun), I would expect it to be very busy in the departure lounge. I may have difficulty in finding a seat but that is what is to be expected. If I don't like it, I try a flight at a different time. There are 2/3 flights a day to the popular destinations so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Here is my view why it should not be as busy, even at peak times. After the attack on the USA, pax were asked to arrive at least 3 hours before departure to allow time for the extra security checks. Over 10 years later many people are still arriving up to 3 hours before departure, some because they don't know that most airlines only ask for 1 hour and some because they do not like change and they have always done it. (Same reason why people who live close to LBA still travel to MAN)
If I am right, then it is within the control of the pax to ease congestion by turning up at an appropriate time.
Is this too simplistic?

 

[scousefowler]

Seasider-

I would think that when booking flights passenger congestion at the terminal is unlikely to be considered by the passenger. I would think most passengers would not have any idea of peak times at the airport, and any possible congestion.

I've flown quite a few times from LBA and from MAN, and the big difference to me is space in the terminal. I suppose it is less stressful when you are not 'on top of' your fellow passengers when going on holiday. However, I hate that M62 with a passion, and I would rather be 'congested' at LBA than travel on that blinking motorway. Having said that, I can't recall ever having to sit on the floor at LBA.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Can I say that having been flying for 60 years and based in the LBA area, until 10 years ago had used LBa less then 5 times in 50 years as impossible to get the flights we needed. used east midlands, glasgow, gatwick, birmingham etc.
In the last 10 years I have made around only a handful of flights outside LBA as it know caters for most of my needs. Certainly the need to go to gatwick, Glasgow has been removed.
The arrival of Jet2 has seem over 50 routes established over the last 10 years, well over half I have used, never mind the arrival of Ryanair, easyjet, etc and the return of BA which opens up basically the world from LBA.
I just wonder where those people who complain today did 10 years ago they could not have flown from LBA
We then saw a new owner take over at the time of the biggest global economic collapse since the 30's, which planet are these people on who think they will invest large sums of money when figures dont warrent. The number of flight movements last year and still down 20% on 2007 (39603 2009, 31057 2013) basically when Bridgepoint took over. You dont invest money on this basis. Obviously Bridgepoint made boasts of what they were going to do on takeover, but so did other companies boast of expansion policies before 2008. However the downturn brought the red ink out.
I have flown virtually every month this year from LBA last month to Paris at 1pm the airport was empty, in June to Nice at 11am the airport empty in Feb, Mar, apl and May at 6am the airport was crowded but we still got a seat. Being crowded for 3 hours out of 24 does not warrent a huge investment, when crowded for half the operating time yes becomes an issue.
If people were more proactive would help, in May we wanted a cup of tea, all the tables in one unit either full of people or the tables just full of pots. Asked for a tray and cleared and wiped down 6 tables in about 3 minutes, about 20 people who had been stood about waiting for the tables to clear just sat down. I asked if they would all clear their tables on leaving to help the staff.
last week end at Gatwick we had the situation of people not getting their cases either off or on the aircraft and possible problems this week end, nothing in this world is perfect.
My son and family flew from Manchester last month, his comments on the airport and the car parking are not printable on this forum, add to the usual M62 issues, he wishes he had paid more and flown from LBA. I went to collect him, took over two hours after my daughter in law came through with the children, before he came through with cases, said it took 90 minutes to clear customs at 8am in the morning. having two small children they were not happy how they were pushed and shoved around the airport.
The improvements of LBa since the end of the last century are staggering, from 98 to 2007 we saw a 50% increase in aircraft movements, then the great crash came, who knows where we would be today if the downturn had not happened.
The last 3 months financial reports by airlines have all been gloomy about the future even when Jet2, Easyjet and Ryanair have produced good figures for the last year, they have all worried the city by making a dismal prediction for the future.
Someone has mentioned limited winter availability, not surprised, airlines are cutting back on routes not expanding them.
I have a friend who lives near gatwick and flies like me often to malaga, he says flights out of Gatwick both this summer and this winter have suffered a huge cut back and this is a main holiday resort. Why should LBA be any different.

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi tarn spotters
why should we have to clear the tables at the price we pay they should have the staff.
if you and your wife had to sit on the floor you may view LBA in a different light.
I like you fly to AGP many times per year on the 7.0 flight with jet2,and if you count up the number of departures between 6.0am and 7.30 you will see why so many people
have to sit on they floor.also all airports have there quiet times even AGP.
regards
sm1

 

[Aviador]

hi tarn spotters
why should we have to clear the tables at the price we pay they should have the staff.
if you and your wife had to sit on the floor you may view LBA in a different light.
I like you fly to AGP many times per year on the 7.0 flight with jet2,and if you count up the number of departures between 6.0am and 7.30 you will see why so many people
have to sit on they floor.also all airports have there quiet times even AGP.
regards
sm1

There is no questioning how far LBA has come in the last few years. Going back ten years who could have imagined Leeds Bradford Airport handling over three million passengers a year? The main point here is whether or not our local airport is where it should be right now? If LBA was the airport for a small city like Aberdeen or Norwich then the airport would have almost reached it's full potential. Unfortunately we know LBA suffers from significant catchment leakage to other neighbouring airports that are in close proximity to Leeds, competition is fierce. On that note, it's imperative passengers get the best possible experience from LBA every time. If you are unlucky enough to have to sit on the floor in cramped conditions at LBA, could this impact your willingness to use the airport again with so many other local airports in the region to choose from?

For the past several years we have all gone along with the recession as a perfectly good reason why the airport owners haven't invested significantly in our airport but other local airports are investing in their future right now, so why not here at LBA? The £13m refurbishment of the departure area was welcomed by all with open arms but it has had little impact on passenger comfort with passenger numbers already too great for the size of the terminal space available for the majority of the peak summer period.

 

[rmac]

I would say that many UK airports are not, at the moment, performing well. Other forums have moans that their local airport is not doing well, annual numbers are down, Cardiff, Newcastle, EMA, Liverpool, DTV amongst others compared to a few years ago.
So what about LBA? Is the airport making a reasonable profit -it seems not. Is the local authority pressing on with better access to the airport, are they giving the rail link or the parkway station a priority? Seems not. Are they pushing to get the new link road to the A65 financed and ready to start? Seems not. Are the locals being loyal to their local airport even though things at times are not ideal? Do they by-pass LBA and head for MAN or elsewhere where they think they will get a better deal -maybe they will - but not supporting your local will not improve matters! How loyal are they? Well ? What do the figures suggest?
So should the owners rush out and invest millions or wait a little longer?

 

[Aviador]

There are two sides to this debate and I am not suggesting the pro-investment now side is the right way forward for LBA but I definitely feel the odds are stacking up in favour of this, at least where LBA is concerned anyway. The airport has always underperformed in both public and private sector so it's years behind where it should be which is why I think the need for investment is ever so much stronger.

 

[rmac]

I could not agree more! Where is the Investment coming from? At Edinburgh another £150m is currently underway -but then 10 million use the airport. But I agree - a city and region the likes of Leeds and West Yorkshire should be much bigger.
Many years ago Edinburgh lagged behind Glasgow, nearly everyone flew from Glasgow for their holidays and it was also common to hear "we have to go to Manchester" etc. The local paper urged people to use the upcoming increased holiday programme from Edinburgh and this they did. Now I hardly hear of anyone going to Manchester these days and generally speaking the locals are proud of Edinburgh and use it extensively. The same could be said of Glasgow folk and their top class airport.
LBA has had a great leap forward recently and the locals are using it more but another leap forward is needed to encourage greater investment - wherever it is coming from.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Snowman1: Truthfully never failed to get a seat and had to sit on the floor and as I dont do sitting down usually leave the other half and walk round. Even up to our boarding there has been plenty of empty seats on every visit, and we have been there for couple of hours.
Around 5.30am the Amsterdam flights starts loading so a huge space is created around gates 9 and 10, as the regulars on this flight know where to sit.
I would rather have LBA anyday then AGP, two years ago at AGP before the opening of T3 they removed half the chairs in zone B and C to ensure you could not sit down and were forced to wonder around and shop or use the cafe's and restaurants.
In the domestic zone B lounge now only 8 seats and with them now closing the connecting doors you cannot sit in the seats of a nearby gate. We got locked in in May as my wife severly disabled and no seats available at the gate moved to the nearest gate, did not realise when flight called area shut off, we had to bang on the glass doors to be let out.
Even in the international departure zone B properly only around 50 seats for an aircraft taking around 200, never mind the stupid situation on which zone you depart from, may be all right for able bodied, but to be lined up to load and then told not this gate which happens often at AGP.
THings at AGP have not improved over the years, 40 years ago you were lucky if they called your gate, you had to wander up and down to find, then you had to walk on the apron to locate your aircraft as they would direct you to a Air 2000 plane and you were flying Dan Air, we complain about LBA security, AGP is a total joke.

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi tarnspotter
it just goes to show how people find airports
we always seem to have problems with the seating (or lack of) at lba, I did account up of the public seats not including the cafes and bars,and it was under 300 and between
6&7am on a Monday I think theirs about 10 take offs it just does not add up.
re Malaga airportwe have never had any problems their with the airport or security.
will see what LBA is like on sept8 going back out for 5 weeks
regards
sm1

 

[Bigman]

Maybe a pop-up shop renting out fold-up camping seats for an hour at a time might be useful. They would make a mint by the sound of it!!