Future Infrastructure Developments

[a300boy]

Fueterventura and Ostend have similar displaced thresholds and I am sure many other airports around the world.

 

[Len Fish]

I think they are - it’s in 3.6.5

This appears highly contradictory to me, spreading the aviation share of the whole UK would surely raise emissions in some areas such as Leeds (whilst admittedly lowering them at others). The whole statement only goes to show the dilemma between ensuring a thriving economy through air travel and reducing the industry’s emissions. There’s no easy answer to this Catch 22, although the eco warriors would like us to think there is.

 

[White Heather]

OK guys (and gals if there are any, which seems not to be the case these days ).

Today was the Extra-ordinary Consultative Committee meeting at which we were given a presentation about the airport terminal proposal and given the opportunity to ask questions. I will provide below a summary of what we were shown and told. As the question has been raised above with regard to the issue of emissions and CO2, I will start with some information on the relative CO2 emissions and the part that aviation plays in these figures globally, for some perspective that sadly, certain University figures and certain people with their own agendas choose to ignore.

Emissions Globally as at 2020 - Sources of CO2 and percentage of global CO2 output as follows:

Generation of electricity (power stations etc) - 43%
Road Transport - 17%
Building emissions - 10%
Other Industrial outputs - 9%
Heating and Power - 7%
Iron and Steel Industry - 5%
Cement manufacturing industry - 4%
Shipping industry - 3%
Aviation industry - 2%

Within the UK, Aviation amounts to 12% of all transport CO2 emissions. Of that, LBA contributes only 1% of that 12% aviation figure.

The target of the aviation industry is to half CO2 emissions by 2050. Aircraft and engine manufacturers are working to reduce emissions through better aircraft design and improved engine technology whilst aviation fuel manufacturers are working to develop new types of kerosene that emit less carbon.

It can be seen therefore that although aviation constantly attracts bad press due to its supposedly high levels of emissions, it comes bottom of the pile when compared to other industries.

LBA is complying with the Airport International Carbon Compliance Scheme. It hopes to achieve accreditation at Level 1 next month and will then continue to make changes to reduce emissions, reaching Level 2 in 2021, Level 3 in 2022 and Level 3+ by 2023. The proposed terminal will meet BREEAM Excellent standards, and will be only the 2nd airport terminal building in the UK to do so (the other being LHR Terminal 2). LBA will take steps to offset any CO2 emissions they are responsible for that cannot be dealt with effectively although they were not able to say at this time how that will be achieved. The obvious one is a tree planting scheme.

It was stated also that the new terminal will enable LBA to attract airlines who operate the cleanest aircraft types in terms of both CO2 and noise emissions and also to consider a landing fee discount scheme to attract such airlines to operate from LBA using the latest technology aircraft. As these include the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 plus various others that are smaller they clearly have no qualms about the runway's ability to handle these types.

Reasons for not progressing previously approved terminal extension(s)

Premiums airlines remained unimpressed with the proposal due to the restrictions brought about by the size and shape of the 1965 terminal building.

A further extension would have been required in order to fit in the new CAA Security Equipment which requires considerably more space.

The scheme did not enable LBA to become carbon neutral.

Huge disruption to the terminal for several years during construction and in particular during the reconfiguration of the existing terminall building in Phase 2.

Still didn't provide sufficient in the way of baggage re-claim space following more detailed analysis.

New Terminal details

3 storey building located on what are currently stands 20 and 21. This will include an L shaped pier extension which will include passenger holding lounges each with its own seating/waiting area in front of the aircraft stands.

The terminal WILL include an unspecified number of air bridges on the stands directly in front of the terminal and it is envisaged these will be mainly used by Premium Airlines. British Airways being one. Other airlines were mentioned, none of which currently fly from LBA. I am not going to name them as I don't want to start rumours about something that is not certain and in any case, 3 years in the future.

There will be a bus terminal near the front entrance but this has now been relocated to the NW of the entrance rather than the SE as shown on the publicity. Similarly there will be a taxi rank close by.

There will be a dedicated goods yard to the NW side of the terminal with its own road access from Whitehouse Lane.

Public will enter/leave via a large area on the terminal front, accessing several escalators, or stairs and 3 high capacity lifts. Departing passengers will go to the Ground Floor of the terminal where there will be a single check in hall. This will be approximately 3 times the size of the current Jet2 hall, will have a very slightly lower number of check in desks but twice as many self check in points as there are currently. Overall check in capacity will therefore considerably increase and become more efficient. Passengers will then go via escalator to the 2nd floor (Baggage security hall).

Also on the Ground Floor will be the new baggage loading area (back of house) and for arriving passengers the baggage re-claim area with 3 belts double the length of the current belts and considerably more space.


The Second Floor floor is the Departure Floor will include a new Baggage Security Screening area with the latest CAA equipment. There will be 6 lanes but each will be considerably longer than at present and will enable the processing of 350 passengers per lane at peak times compared to 160 at present. Effectively these 6 lanes will have the same capacity as 12 of the current lanes. The floor will also include a large square Duty Free area, plus the usual shopping outlets, eateries and (no doubt) drinking facilities. There is also a large seating area along the side of the terminal (full length) overlooking the apron, although when I asked how many seats, no specific figures are yet available. There were a lot on the plan though and these were not including any within the various eating and drinking places. Passengers would in due course leave this area dropping down into the pier waiting areas in front of their aircraft or by using the air bridges directly onto the aircraft.


The First Floor is arrivals. It will include the Customs area with at least 11 gates, 5 of which will be E Gates. This may, following discussions with Border Force, change to 16 of which 10 would be E Gates. Passengers will, after clearing customs, drop down via escalator to the baggage re-claim area which I above, will have 3 large (double length) carousels and a large area around them. There will be a Meet and Greet area landside with commercial outlets for use whilst waiting to meet passengers. Finally, in the core area of this floor there will be toilet facilities.

Road and Rail Access

Confirmed that the new terminal will be approximately 0.7m from the proposed Parkway Station.

Confirmed that Leeds City Council are now looking at the road network in the area following the cancellation of the link road., However, a key factor is that the NW end of this link road (between the A658 to the West of Bramhope) and the airport, and Parkway Station is still likely to be built. Other road improvements (eg Whitehouse Lane) are also being looked into.

There are no proposals to increase or decrease car parking spaces overall. Any lost to the terminal will be replaced elsewhere within the airport confines. There are currently 7600 spaces owned by the airport. Current Long Stay parking will become Short Stay and vice versa.

Any shuttle buses operated between the airport and Parkway Station will be dedicated to the Station and not the same ones that go around the car park, the intention being that they are there waiting when trains arrive. It seems likely that by 2023 the buses will be electrically powered.

Current Terminal, Control Tower and other facilities

Although the terminal will eventually be demolished there will be a pause between the new terminal opening and the old one being removed. During this period, the Control Tower will remain where it is. If the terminal development is approved, then the entire Development Plan for the airfield will be reviewed and this will determine the future location of the Control Tower, Fire Station and others. At present there are no plans for the Cargo area as it is not proving possible to attract any Cargo Handling organisations to LBA. It was stated that this is an industry wide issue now impacting on other airport too, with Cargo Handling companies wishing to focus on specific airports which are Cargo Hubs (the example being given was EMA). However, LBA are continuing to try to change this and in regular discussion with The British Institute of Freight Forwarding (BIFF).

Aircraft Stands

The final number of stands has yet to be determined. It was stated that from Summer 2021, during any construction, there would be a need at times to stand aircraft overnight on the old runway 28 (taxiway) due to the loss of two stands, usually used by Jet2. However this will be dependent upon the number of based aircraft (taking into account the recent loss of two Ryanair 737 800s). It was confirmed that following demolition of the old terminal there will be scope to expand the apron Northwards to make several stands bigger.

It was confirmed that 12 stands will be capable of handling wide body aircraft.


AMP Capital

Confirmed that AMP Capital will fund this development entirely and that this represents a long term investment for the company. LBA is the only airport worldwide that they own outright.

Planning and Consultation

The plans will go before a Pre Application Panel of Leeds City Council next month.

There will be a public consultation exercise which will include an event at the Britannia Hotel, Bramhope from 8th to 10th February. This will be publicised shortly.

It was stated that there is considerable support for Airport Investment at national, regional and local levels and that Leeds City Council's policy is to support the airport and its development. The airport currently contributes £475m pa GVA to the local economy and this will increase in line with any increase in airport capacity.

The planning application will be made to Leeds City Council in March 2020.

Finally - and significantly - the planning application will consist of two parts. The construction of the new terminal building, and also, the amendment of the night time flying hours at LBA. Currently these are 2300 to 0600 and the airport is now running at capacity due to the number of aircraft per year departing between 0600 and 0700 plus those arriving after 2300. These hours are much more stringent than those operated at other airports and the airport is now seeking to have them amended to fall in line with competing airports. The application will therefore be that night time hours are changed to 2330 to 0600.

It should be noted that without the change in night time hours, the terminal will not be able to function to its full capacity and will not be built. Any approval will therefore be for both the terminal development and the amended night time hours.







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[Aviador]

Thank you for your comprehensive summary of the consultative meeting. Is there a time frame for when the airport expect to receive a decision one way or another?

 

[Hendi]

Excellent report as ever white heather. did they provide or did u see any info on how the pier will work regarding arrivals will it accept arriving passengers aswell or is it purely departures? the last paragraph worries me. Has the airport ever tried to change these flying hours before? Is it the council who decides and does anybody have the foggiest if it's likely to be accepted or not.

 

[airforced]

WH - thanks for the quite comprehensive report from your meeting. It sounds as though there is much positivity around from the airport management and that the noises from the Council are positive too. Let us hope that this positive aura will continue and we will all be able, in the fullness of time, to see and feel the benefits of these latest proposals.

 

[jw2k]

Many thanks for the detailed update @White Heather - it is much appreciated as always!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Many thanks for the detailed update @White Heather - it is much appreciated as always!

Thanks WH, 2 weeks back it was all doom and gloom, what a change, its all getting exciting now!

 

[leedslad]

Brill update as always and thanks for your commitment to the cause.

Did you enquire if they will re engage regarding the direct rail link given the completely different terminal location and topography? Thanks

 

[Statto]

Excellent report as ever white heather. did they provide or did u see any info on how the pier will work regarding arrivals will it accept arriving passengers aswell or is it purely departures? the last paragraph worries me. Has the airport ever tried to change these flying hours before? Is it the council who decides and does anybody have the foggiest if it's likely to be accepted or not.

Great update Heather - thank you. I must admit though, I agree with Hendi though that this flying hours issue seems a risk. By linking the two issues together they are now going to bring out opposition from the local residents as well as the climate activists and will be fighting a battle on two fronts. I think night hours at LBA are currently defined as 23:00 to 07:00. I don't think the extension to 23:30 in the evening will be too controversial, but the shift from 07:00 to 06:00 feels like something that will attract a lot of opposition.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I also share Hendis misgivings about extending the flying hours. We cant afford to go back to the situation in the 70's. Thats what really arrested the airports growth and why we are so far behind today. Last thing we need is LACAN reforming with todays added environmentalist lobby adding its weight. Personally I think the airports been pushing its luck anyway with the current night quota.

 

[LBA8098]

Thank you WH as ever for a massive effort. Fingers and toes crossed for a positive outcome.

 

[Bigman]

I had always hoped that if they knocked the old shed down that they would extend the stands to make them longer/bigger, so it looks as if this will now happen. Positive thinking at last...and not before time!

 

[LBA8098]

In respect of the night time definition adjustments, I don't foresee any major issues as relatively minor plus bringing it in line with other comparable airport's.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

It would just serve to provoke local residents. Not a good move.

 

[dmrodgers]

In respect of the night time definition adjustments, I don't foresee any major issues as relatively minor plus bringing it in line with other comparable airport's.

All the nimby are going to be out in force over this move. Just hope

In respect of the night time definition adjustments, I don't foresee any major issues as relatively minor plus bringing it in line with other comparable airport's.

Can see all the local nimby;s out in force over this move. Just hope LCC take the sensible route over this one and ignore a very small minority and look at the bigger picture of more local jobs and prosperity for the Leeds Region. Knowing LCC record on the airport I have my doubts which would scupper plans for the new terminal.

 

[Hendi]

The terminal is positive news for sure and it been eco friendly or the 2nd eco friendliest in the uk may have got some of the anti airport/climate activists onside. the flying hours I think may cause abit of a stink, and bring out more anti airport activists/the people who live close by. I hope the council can see the positives and the support for the airport and what it brings and potentially could bring to the economy, if this does not go through that last statement sums it up and theres nothing else Amp can do really. I do wonder what the other airlines are they've been talking to and if they have any guarantees about services once the terminal is built

 

[Len Fish]

Suspect the NIMBYS will come out anyway and so will the ECO mob, despite the terminal being environmentally friendly they’ll still moan about the (minimal on the scale of things) pollution from the aircraft themselves and their likely increasing numbers. LBA management have thrown down the gauntlet to LCC. No extension to operating hours then no terminal and hence no jobs from the construction work and no extra jobs or extra wealth for the region once it’s built. With the new Government pushing for development in the North, this is as good a time as any for AMP to take a tough line with the ineffective LCC.

 

[White Heather]

Thank you for your comprehensive summary of the consultative meeting. Is there a time frame for when the airport expect to receive a decision one way or another?

No problem Aviador, and if there is such a timeframe, they didn't say. I guess that is very much down to Leeds City Planning and how much involvement they have had in this in advance of the planning submission.

Excellent report as ever white heather. did they provide or did u see any info on how the pier will work regarding arrivals will it accept arriving passengers aswell or is it purely departures? the last paragraph worries me. Has the airport ever tried to change these flying hours before? Is it the council who decides and does anybody have the foggiest if it's likely to be accepted or not.

No this wasn't mentioned but there is a lot of detail still to be sorted out. However, the pier will either have to have a dedicated arrivals side to it, or passengers will have to be bussed to the terminal and this latter option was never mentioned at all. Guess we will have to wait and see. No the airport has not tried to change these night time hours before although the Consultative Committee have been asking them to do so for years as they put the airport at a disadvantage compared to other airports that have the more usual night time hours of 2330 - 0600. It seems illogical that night time across the country ends at 0600 and in sleepy old Leeds, it is 0700. However, until now, the airport has never needed to change the hours as they have been able to operate as things are without ever infringing the annual night time movement limit. That cannot continue without imposing severe restrictions on airlines and what they do with their (based) aircraft. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if airlines wanting to base an aircraft are told they must be back on the ground by 2300 or not depart before 0700, they are more than likely going to take their aeroplanes and put them somewhere else.

Great update Heather - thank you. I must admit though, I agree with Hendi though that this flying hours issue seems a risk. By linking the two issues together they are now going to bring out opposition from the local residents as well as the climate activists and will be fighting a battle on two fronts. I think night hours at LBA are currently defined as 23:00 to 07:00. I don't think the extension to 23:30 in the evening will be too controversial, but the shift from 07:00 to 06:00 feels like something that will attract a lot of opposition.


Yes statto it was a typo that the system would not let me amend as there is a time limit. Night hours are currently 2300 to 0700, so our night time in Leeds is 1.5 hours longer than everywhere (or virtually everywhere) else. Hardly an incentive to airlines who wish to base an aircraft here knowing that there are limits to how many movements are allowed in night hours. Bear in mind that recently Ryanair (who used aircraft based in the Canaries so didn't affect the night time tally of movements) have stopped these flights. Jet2 have picked them up using a based aircraft. Any based aircraft that is required to do a minimum of 2 round trips per day, and which does (say) Palma in the morning and then (say) Tenerife in in the afternoon, will end up arriving back after 2300 if they are unable to depart before 0700. So the situation is about to get worse and LBA will quickly exceed it's night time movements limits unless they are brought in line with other airports. Or, alternatively, airlines like Jet2 won't be able to do as many flights to the longer destinations. Or they won't base as many aircraft. As things stand, LBA is reaching the situation where any more based aircraft won't happen as it will inevitably lead to the night movements limit being exceeded. They should have applied to change these hours years ago and I am pleased that they are now doing it. My worry is also that the terminal development is tied to approval of the revised night hours definition, but from AMPs perspective, they are not going to spend £150m on a new terminal capable of handling 7m passengers per year, only to then find that they can't do so because airlines are constantly restricted in what they can schedule. In addition, the current hours are largely responsible, in summer, for the rush of flights all wanting to depart at 0700 or as soon as possible after that. We all know they can't all go at once, so flights pick up delays waiting their turn. Changing day time to start at 0600 allows departing flights to be spread more evenly, avoiding the delays that happen now.

I also share Hendis misgivings about extending the flying hours. We cant afford to go back to the situation in the 70's. Thats what really arrested the airports growth and why we are so far behind today. Last thing we need is LACAN reforming with todays added environmentalist lobby adding its weight. Personally I think the airports been pushing its luck anyway with the current night quota.

Not sure of your logic LBAYORKIE. The current night time hours definition is already arresting the airport's growth and changing them to be the same as almost every other airport in the UK will give LBA a level playing field that they have never enjoyed. Changing the hours ot 2330 to 0600 is hardly going to be noticed. We already have departures of several flights between 0600 and 0700, notably Ryanair, and KLM. This would enable a few more to go before 0700, so spreading out the first phase of departures and avoiding delays caused by the queue of early departures caused by the airport having to restrict how many can leave before 0700 each day. As I pointed out above, any based aircraft doing just a flight down to Spain in the morning then a longer route in the afternoon, will end up getting back to LBA after the night time start (2300) and therefore adding to the list of 'night' flights. Once the airport hits its limit, then we will also be prevented from having any more based aircraft as airlines will not accept these restrictions when other airports don't have such stringent limits.

I fail to see why you consider the airport has been 'pushing its luck' with the current night quota? That quota was set in 1996 as part of the planning consent for 24 hour operations and was set at a time where a fair proportion of aircraft using LBA were still noisy chapter 2 aircraft. These are now gone so noise levels are reduced substantially. The airport has always operated within the set movement limits and still do so, but they are reaching capacity and the situation I have highlighted above re Ryanair giving up Canary Island routes and Jet2 taking them on will only exacerbate the situation. Changing the hours to the usual 2330 - 0600 will just give parity to LBA compared to other airports and will not lead to any significant increase in night flying. It just gives the airport and airlines a bit more wriggle room. Would you prefer that aircraft start to be diverted from LBA at the back end of each year because the airport cannot allow them to land because the annual night time movement limit has been hit? Bear in mind this movement limit includes smaller prop aircraft too, so the likes of Eastern's Jetstream 41 counts just as much as a Jet2 Boeing 757.

Why extend flying hours....business routes and the main carriers are happy to work within normal hours it's the bucket and spade routes that come in after midnight....I thought (obviously wrongly) that they wanted more business routes with national carriers.
There's going to be such a negative response to this as we all know.

See all of the above. The airport wants more business routes but at the same time it is not going to be able to offer the likes of Jet2 scope for any further based aircraft or new routes if they are constantly told they have to schedule all flights to depart after 0700 or arrive by 2300 because the night time quota has been reached - and that quota has been reached at LBA when at any other airport the quota would not have been reached because their night hours (which are generally standardised) are 2330 to 0600. Personally I cannot see what the fuss is about. During the week most people are getting up to go to work or school etc fairly early, and in summer the sun is shining brightly by 0600, yet here in Yorkshire it is considered to still be night time., It is crazy.

Finally there are several suggestions above that LBA are changing night time flying hours. They are NOT. The airport is a 24 hour airport. All they are doing is asking to change the definition of night time in Leeds to what it is at Manchester, East Midlands, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh etc. so that commercially LBA can offer the same as every other competing airport. For far too many years LBA has been restricted in some way that other airports are not. The Council can approve this and in doing so set a new annual movement limit if they wish to do so that is more realistic. The picture some of you are painting suggests that there are going to be loads and loads of aircraft departing at 0600 or loads more arriving during the night. There won't. The difference will be marginal at best.

If you want to see the airport grow to 7m passengers per year and have more Jet2/Ryanair based aircraft plus an Easyjet base for example, you need to get behind this as it won't happen without. No airline will base here if they know that there is a chance of being diverted to another airport in perfect weather because they are late back and the airport has reached its night time flying quota for the year.

 

[oldendays]

Another way to look at the flying hours snag is as follows:

AMP: Forget the existing plan. We'll build a brand new eco-friendly, super-duper terminal for LBA. Cost, £150m. We just need planning permission from LCC.

LCC: Great. You've got it. Crack on.

AMP: Provided you change the night-time flying hours to 2330-0600. If you don't, you can forget the new terminal and we'll proceed with the inferior plan you have already approved. Your call, LCC...

BTW, super posts again from White Heather. Many thanks for your efforts.