Future Infrastructure Developments

[White Heather]

Leedslad, the terminal expansion is still likely to be included in the Masterplan. In fact the airport have done what is required to keep that option open and ensure planning consent is maintained. They have said that when the demand is such that they need it, they will build it. Consequently, no dates are likely unless they are sure that by a given date the extra capacity will be required. Given the relative lack of action in terms of new routes and the money recently spent enabling the car park buses to drop off right outside the current front door, I wouldn't expect that the terminal expansion will start within the next 2 years. But you never know!

 

[oldendays]

I wish Bridgepoint would give us some more aircraft parking stands, yesterday. Their latest wheeze was to reconfigure stands 19-24 into a bizarre mix of angles, arrows and different coloured paints. We have gained a single stand out of this mess meaning one aircraft is blocked in and buses and fuel bowsers have little room for error. The aircraft are also parked ridiculously close together. The situation is complete b******s and an accident waiting to happen. More concrete please, not paint !

 

[Moo2009]

Jet2 are not happy about what's gone on between Stand 19 and 24 they have to tow 1 aircraft onto the stand, it's a right mess over there. One damaged plane for jet2 and hell to pay I hear
Wickes have sand and cement on offer at the moment anyone fancy chipping in for the airport

 

[White Heather]

Whilst is good to read these comments in here, if you want to really make your point, why not embarrass the airport by making them on their Facebook pages? Or write to the MD and ask for a response? He has promised to reply to anyone who writes to him personally. I am pretty sure that parking stands will be high in the list of things to do but it is taking far too long.

 

[oldendays]

It's the 'wait and see' attitude towards developing Leeds Bradford that gets up my nose. Instead of carrying out improvements in anticipation of increased traffic (proactive), Bridgepoint wait until it's really obviously necessary (reactive). Or in the case of extending the parking apron and the terminal, they miss the boat completely and come up with half-baked solutions involving litres of paint.

Sometimes I think Messrs Parkin, Hallwood et al would be better off being answerable to a community of chimpanzees.

 

[Aviador]

White Heather,

Not everybody uses Facebook, and why should they? I know members of the airport management look at Forums4airports. They are more than welcome to speak to people directly on here, we don't bite.

 

[Bigman]

A world gone mad!!! We can't get money to invest in transport infrastructure yet it's OK to spend £160M on some old Picasso!!! You could buy LBA for that!!

 

[airforced]

White Heather,

Not everybody uses Facebook, and why should they? I know members of the airport management look at Forums4airports. They are more than welcome to speak to people directly on here, we don't bite.

Are you sure about that Aviador? I can imagine a number of people on here who certainly would bite given the opportunity.

Only joking of course.

 

[White Heather]

Aviador - you are missing the point!

I know not everyone uses Facebook but many more people do use it than come on this or any other forum. Messages on there, positive or negative, are there for a huge audience to see. Comments such as those made about LBA's lack of action (on many subjects) could be posted on there and might just provoke a response from LBA, or highlight to them the dissatisfaction out here. I mention people's concerns at every meeting but I don't honestly think LBA management believe that there is as much dissatisfaction as there really is - because they don't see it or hear it!

LBA have stated already to me within the last 3 weeks that their preferred method of publicity is now Facebook or Twitter - hence the lack of any Press releases since January. I am not defending the airport and fully agree that they are not doing enough. I am simply saying that if people wish to provoke a response from LBA, the place to do it is on the very forum that they now seem to favour as a means to showboat their 'achievements'. It therefore seems wholly reasonable that where they are failing, those failing are also publicly aired.

I have also repeatedly mentioned the fact that John Parkin has said he will be happy to reply to any letter or email sent to him relating to the airport. Complaining on here might get things out of the system but it provides no answers. A communication to John, just might.

It feels to me as though whatever I say on this forum is deemed to be me supporting LBA - and on this I am not. If I were I would not suggest that people such make negative comments on Facebook.

 

[Aviador]

White Heather

I understand what you are saying re Facebook. The advantage of using this forum overy Facebook is generally our users already have a good understanding of the airport. Forums4airports is a niche subject.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to give any further details other than to repeat what I've already said in that they know Forums4airports exist. It would be great "if we could" have a talk to the airport thread. It would have to be heavily censored though if users started to abuse It.

 

[rhinoscrazy]

White Heather

I understand what you are saying re Facebook. The advantage of using this forum overy Facebook is generally our users already have a good understanding of the airport. Forums4airports is a niche subject.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to give any further details other than to repeat what I've already said in that they know Forums4airports exist. It would be great "if we could" have a talk to the airport thread. It would have to be heavily censored though if users started to abuse It.

i personally think a 'Talk to the airport' thread on here would be a good idea, but would the airport actually use it or recognize it and feed back any answers or use any idea which some of us may come up with? it would be beneficial to both the airport and us to see the airport take on board our feelings and feed back! :search: :blush:

 

[TheLocalYokel]

LBA have stated already to me within the last 3 weeks that their preferred method of publicity is now Facebook or Twitter - hence the lack of any Press releases since January. I am not defending the airport and fully agree that they are not doing enough.

A very important group of customers in terms of using the airport (and other airports) is the over 60s. I'm easily into that group and with hindsight we were the lucky generation (may not have thought so at the time) in that jobs were always plentiful; mortgages relatively easy to come by and service; a large proportion of this group now has decent pensions and disposable cash.

Therefore it's a group that has the time and money to spend on things like holidays. Airports are aware of this but may not be aware that although many of them (again like me) have become reasonably computer-literate and use the net, many of us steer clear of sites like Twitter and Facebook. Ergo we would not be aware of the airport's communication through these media.

 

[rmac]

I identify with Local Yokel on this one. Thinking that I might have some up to date news about LBA I followed their request to look them up on Facebook and then realised I would have to 'sort' of join, even on the lowest entry scale. This I did not want to do and have never had anything to do with Facebook since.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I don't use facebook either, I just don't buy into the principle.

Moving on, I went to very interesting presentation at Doncaster Airport yesterday*. As we know their road link is going to be open early next year, but they are also confident of a rail link soon. Apparently the franchise on the Lincoln line is due to be renewed anytime now and the link will be provided within the term of the franchise. Im not sure how long there things run but assume about five years.

I was really impressed with the airport- even as it stands at the moment. I can see massive growth coming once the new road is put in.

It was very interesting to compare the approach of Peel and LBA in terms of investment. Peel have, and continue to invest multi millions (£150m) in building up the airport and subsidising the link road (£12M) and presumably also the rail link. In comparison Bridgepoint do not have the same enthusiasm for LBA however, Doncaster has a lot going for it that LBA doesn't. I have shown a list below and the truth is that the first two points are the really critical ones. LBA could build a motorway link and may be get the support of local authorities but they will never be able to sort out the runway and land issues. Cant see LBA doing anything on cargo either.

1. 1600 acres of land
2. Long, wide and flat runway
3. Road link to motorway network
4. Support of local authorities
5. Firm commitment to cargo


Overall I reckon Doncaster is in a very, very healthy position and is poised to expand significantly.

* The presentation was principally for air logistics providers. Almost all came from West Yorkshire, one of Doncaster's target area's. Shame LBA do not even acknowledge cargo operations at LBA.

Alan

 

[lbaspotter]

Even though I agree with you LBAYORKIE it's not totally a fair comparison. As how much European funding has Peel Group received into setting up to DSA compared to what Bridgepoint have at LBA?

 

[White Heather]

LBAYORKIE, you are also overlooking the fact that DSA is not close to its main centres of population - which is never a good thing for an airport. Sheffield (with or without the link road) is over 20 miles away by road. People there, especially in the west of the city are just as close to MAN. Those in the south of the city, can almost as easily get to EMA. Those in the north can take their pick between MAN, DSA, and LBA. I do not believe for one minute that the failure of DSA to develop as they expected is due to the absence of a link road. If we took that line, then LBA would still be pulling in less than a million passengers a year as nowhere has worse road links. DSA have first to show airlines that there is the demand from there for scheduled services, both domestic and international. So far, Thomsonfly, Easyjet, Ryanair, Aer Lingus and Flybe have all tried and had little success. Take away Thomson Holiday flights and Wizz Air and the situation would be even worse than it has been.

I am sure it will start to pick up slowly as the economy improves but I do think its location will continue to mean it is largely an airport that has little appeal to the people of West Yorkshire and its main catchment area will always remain split due to the presence of MAN and EMA.

From a cargo perspective, there is clearly scope for success, particularly when a decent road link is built. LBA, frankly, doesn't have the space. Bridgepoint are criticised for their lack of investment or interest in cargo, but I recall that all the way back to the 70's LBA did little in the way of cargo. British Midland had a cargo base at LBA for years but what came in was on a lorry! For LBA to develop cargo they would need to develop parking stands for aircraft near the cargo holding area, and from what I can see there isn't the space - and we can't even get them to provide the additional stands for passenger aircraft. I wish it were not the case but I just can't see cargo developing at all at LBA given the airfield constrictions. Sad, but probably true.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Just to make my position clear, I am very 'pro' Yorkshire and would love to see Doncaster do well, as long as its not at the expense of LBA.

I agree with what has been said about the funding, but the fundamental fact is that the availability of land and the superb runway are a very firm foundation on which to build a successful operation.

DSA's position is actually quite good geographically, when the link road is built it will take the same time to travel from Leeds to DSA or MAN , even travelling down from the north ( Middlesborough for example) its probably even quicker to DSA than LBA and if DSA gives the airlines good deals that's where they will fly to. I would imagine if Jet2 moved their operation to DSA from LBA there would be little impact on their (Jet2's) pax figures. We have staff at my firm that fly from DSA living in Leeds, purely on cost grounds.

As far as cargo goes, LBA was actually very busy on cargo. We used to bring in a minimum of 1000 tonnes per year (yes-that's tonnes) for several years- all on airline trucks, but on through airwaybills. We would start again like a shot if we had EK or similar- we would be filling every flight. We tried PK by the way and it was a nightmare- they were a good match for LBA on the cargo side of things!

LBA's disinterest in cargo is one thing but as I have said before the terrible state of the facilities look absolutely awful to anyone visiting the transit shed or Airedale House (I think that's the blocks name) above WFS Cargo. I feel sorry for anyone who has to work there.

Long live LBA!

LbaYorkie.

 

[White Heather]

It may well be the same travel time from Leeds to Manchester as it is to Doncaster - but Manchester is always going to attract the airlines and Doncaster will possibly struggle to do so as they have in the past. Airlines have to be confident that people are going to opt to fly from there and justify the huge expenditure.

Personally i think it would impact on Jet2 very negatively if they were to move their operation from leeds to Doncaster. I wouldn't fly with them if there was an alternative option from Leeds. Thomson made the mistake of thinking that the West Yorkshire public would follow them down the road, and they didn't. In my case, LBA might not be the best a airport but my loyalty is more to the airport than the airlines that fly from it. I choose my flights from LBA wherever I can, even if it costs a little more.

With regard to people from the NE using Doncaster - the journey time from the A1 junction to the East of Knaresborough to LBA is roughly 30 minutes. I do the journey regularly. You cannot get from there to Doncaster in that time. Even with the new link road it is an hour's drive near enough.

It may be obvious but just to confirm that I do not support Doncaster, for the simple reason that any growth at Doncaster will definitely impact on growth at Leeds. Being a parochial sort, I want Leeds to grow to its maximum and Doncaster will do its best to make sure it doesn't. To some degree they are chasing the same passengers. It is difficult enough for Yorkshire to claim back its passengers from Manchester, but if two airports on this side of the hill are fighting it out and diluting any success that we do have, neither airport will really benefit greatly. That was the gist of the opposition at the public enquiry into DSA and I still agree with it.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Peel seem to have a real commitment to develop DSA, and to stick with their plans. Bridgepoint in common with other venture capitalists are unlikely to be looking at the long term, what they focus on is what the minimum amount they need to spend is to get the airport into a position in which it can be sold for a profit. Bridgepoint really need to be looking over their shoulders and making use of every tool in their inventory to keep LBA ahead. This includes investing in a rail link. Its a shame that a longer runway and motorway link is not practical, because these are the two aces that DSA hold.

 

[White Heather]

Agreed LBAYORKIE, but I can assure you that Bridgepoint are very focussed on what happens down at DSA and any potential risk to LBA. As you said, as an investment company they will be doing what they need to do to maximise profit when they sell up. If they did take their eye off the ball and let DSA start to impact on LBA passenger numbers, the sale value of LBA would be negatively affected, reducing their profit. So they had better get their act together. If they are not prepared, or not able, to spend the money that is required to keep LBA as the premier airport in Yorkshire, then they really should sell now and let someone take over who is prepared to do so. The worry for me is, that sometimes it is a case of 'Better the Devil you know'! :diablo: There is no guarantee that the next owners of LBA will be any better, and they could be a whole lot worse.

I take some comfort in the fact that Leeds City Council appears to be fully signed up to supporting LBA now (it has only taken them my entire life to do so!!) as are METRO and various MP's. Now that makes a refreshing change. They want to see LBA grow and finally, the penny has dropped about the impact a successful airport has on the City Region.