Road, Rail & Access Issues

[LDe]

Welcome to Forums4airports LDe!

I don't have too much knowledge of the railways but I believe the Apperley Bridge line links to Skipton and so onwards from there to the west, so many more opportunities will become available from there potentially.

Thank you!

And that's right, the Airedale Line which Apperley Bridge is built on extends past Skipton into Cumbria, serving places like Morecambe and Carlisle. In fact, I've just seen that East Coast also serve Skipton too, albeit only once a day.

Seems a more ideal location for a shuttle service than Horsforth, which is on a quieter line. Wasn't there plans to build a Leeds/Bradford Airport parkway station after Horsforth, where the line passes through Bramhope and Pool?

 

[Aviador]

Proposed Leeds Bradford Airport road link bypass call

A PROPOSED airport relief road should be the start point for an Aireborough bypass, a ward councillor is arguing.

Guiseley and Rawdon member, Graham Latty, also wants Leeds Bradford Airport (LBA) to be asked to pay its share of the cost of the new road, which could be as much as £75 million.

Cllr Latty made his comments after spending three hours at a well-attended relief road consultation in Rawdon at the weekend.

http://www.wharfedaleobserver.co.uk/new ... pass_call/

Councillor Latty must have been listening to me when I commented saying "although option A was the best option it was also like an unfinished Aireborough bypass".

Clearly I am aware the cost of making option A into a full Aireborough bypass would be considerably more but it would make a huge difference to the area. An Aireborough bypass would also allow easier access to both Horsforth and Guiseley railway stations and potentially a new station at Horsforth or the airport.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Cllr Latty is right about we need to look at a big plan for roads for the next 30 years, not short term sticking plaster.
The A64 from Braham cross road in to Seacroft has for 50 years needed to be dual carriageway. The ring road A6120 is wide enough to be upgraded to the A65 roundabout. As mentioned we need an aireborough bypass, this could be linked in to the A64 improvements.
I will put up with all the disruption and upheaval as a resident if the end result means my children and grandchildren have a chance to get about in 30 years time. However, I just feel the 3 options are just sticking plaster and not worth spending any money on.
May be its time for a Aireborough congestion zone, charging people especially at peak times for using the roads, maybe 50% off for locals, we need some really bold plans, not local council representitives just discussing.
When i was in Malta you were not allowed to drive within one and half miles of a school in the period 90 minutes before and 30 minutes after opening and the reverse at night, even main road were closed. Just this small change would bring so much help, you only have to see the situation in my area when schools on holiday.

 

[Aviador]

How could a congestion charge possibly work? Have you tried to use an alternative form of transport recently to get to Leeds or Bradford? My wife uses the train daily in rush hour. She goes by car to Guiseley or Horsforth railway stations to catch an already bursting at the seams train. She would be penalised for driving to a local railway station if that idea ever came to fruition.

Like Cllr Latty and yourself I do believe the wider picture needs addressing. It's not just access to the airport that needs improving. I understand the majority, if not all of the funding for the new link road will be paid for by the Leeds City Region fund. Surely it would make more sense to carry the airport link road on to link up with the Burley in Wharfedale bypass. This would in turn improve connectivity to Leeds from the North West of the city.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Aviador: At my premises due to pressure from staff to miss rush hour, we now open the office from 6am and open to 10pm, 7 days a week. most staff even those with children can organise to miss rush hours. I think within 2 years these hours will expand. We were stuck in a 9 to 5 rut far too long.
Getting cars off the road and the people walking or on local transport has to be the way forward, not more roads.
maybe if not congestion charge, banning cars from 7am to 9am will free up the road for buses
Off peak tickets on the rail network are no longer valid from 16.01 to 18.29 week days a move to get people off the system at peak hours.
A similar system to get cars off the road needs to be in place.
Hopefully then your wife will be able to have many buses to jump on to the railway station or even to her destination.
I live near the airport and my grandchildren were delighted I told them on friday taking them to see the Leeds lights, when they found they were walking to Guiselely station the gloss went off. Even with a four year old took only 40 minutes, a lot shorter when on my own.

 

[Aviador]

You only have to look at other European cities to realise where we go wrong here. A fully integrated transport system where you can hop on a bus, or catch a tram or train to town on the same ticket for a nominal fee. Here on the otherhand, there are no integrated transport systems. Public transport is way overpriced and there simply aren't enough options. In many European cities they don't need to deny access to roads at any time of day, they operate public transport cheap enough and frequently enough that people prefer using them to using their cars. If Leeds had a supertram operating alongside buses and trains for perhaps just a couple of pound a day it would get people off the road without draconian measures such as limiting car usage. As we know though, transport in the UK has always been half baked. We can't organise anything, build anything without years of consultations and wrangling followed by public enquiry after enquiry. Eventually when something is built, it's inadequate.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I can remember 40 years ago with my transport company being agast that we would not be allowed to deliver to premises in town from 7am to 9.30am it then extended to the night time and now today in most major cities from 7am to 7pm.
We thought it would never work.
many european countries ban vehicles from the road, I worked in Italy for 17 years it has many measures banning completely vehicles at peak times. Motorway speed limits on bank holidays and holiday week ends.
I have already mentioned malta with their school.
last week end the main road through Torremolinos was closed for ever to traffic, Spain has many restrictions. The motorist is placed last and I am sure no one thinks the buses which are very crowded at all times are better or che\aper then west yorkshire.
Just back from Hungary and the quality and cleaniness of the buses not great and the costs whilst cheaper then u.k.., no better in getting from A to B in time.
Leeds looks as if it will take up the right to charge a levy using diesel cars, so why not go the whole hog and make a charge to discourage all cars.

 

[Aviador]

As a car user I would strongly object to forcing car users off the roads. I would on the other hand support the expansion of alternatives such as rail and bus.

You could argue the London congestion charges have worked well for them, but look at the public transport they have. The London Underground has 270 stations. According to Wikipedia there are 365 stations within the Transport London area. There are 673 bus routes of which 52 operate throughout the night.

I know London is the capital city but if you compare it with Leeds you can see how feeble public transport in Leeds is. I can think of no more than 16 railway stations across Leeds and that's including places like Batley.

 

[Bigman]

That's why when we do manage to get new stations, we need to fully exploit their potential. Would it really be rocket science for someone to look at linking the 967 Menston-Airport bus (TLC operated) with the 947 Bradford-Apperley Bridge-Westfield service (also TLC operated)? This would probably assist with TLC bus crew changeovers as they could run one bus all the way from Menston to Bradford. This would also give Yeadon, Pool and Otley a direct bus to the new station.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

WE need to get people out of cars. London has managed to do this, recent figures show that 25% of rush hour commuters now ride a bike to get to work, and a large percentage feel that walking 3 or 4 miles each way is an acceptable distance to undertake to get too and from work. The new super cycle super highway in vauxhall is already in 4 weeks meeting 80% of its planned useage. London figures show that more people are using bikes in the evening rush hour, I assume this means people are cycling to work outisde the morning rush hour.
Whilst the numbers on bikes have risen greatly, new road measures have cut deaths and injury to a quarter of previous levels, a huge reduction, still more to do.
Over the last 30 years in Guiseley/Yeadon I seemed to be in a very small minority on a bike, whereas the ride in to Leeds is an easy ride even from someone with a 7 at the start of their age
I accept we all want to use our cars, but it is not the sensible route forward. WE cant go on building more and more roads.
Like the gun lobby in America, the car lobby in the u.k. has too much clout.
maybe if leeds joins up with Hunberside and north yorkshire in another northern powerhouse, Alan Johnson as the mayor can do a Boris for bikers.

 

[cmj]

Of course London has done it - given the amount of money the get spent on transport. Leeds couldn't even get one tram line built, but the roads that can't cope with the traffic now are going to get a lot worse as they build all these extra houses.

 

[a300boy]

I have to say I find it difficult to believe a single track road from the Rawdon Crematorium area which would then connect to Scotland Lane will make a large difference to the journey to the Airport or have i missed the obvious ?

 

[Tarn Spotter]

CMJ: Thats the whole point more houses will be built and this will result in more people on the move, building more roads not the answer, we need to get people off the road.
We are predicting a 15% increase in our population in the next decade (around 15 million), without allowing another immigrant in to the country.
When you compare us with germany who expect their population to fall by 10 million in the same period, even allowing for 1 million immigrants in the next 5 years.
If we continue to allow around 430k people in to the country yearly as now, this 15 million figure will go up by around 7 million.
I have been in the area of the airport for 30 years and seen the growth of traffic.
Local transport, car share, bikes and walking have to be the way forward.
Maybe like the M606/M621 link you extend the ban on single occupied cars, say during peak rush hours.

 

[cmj]

We could limit the population increase, but no politician is ever going to do that.

I agree we need to get more people off the road (at least in private cars) so there needs to be an alternative. Leeds couldn't even get one tram line, you can't drive people off the roads (excuse the pun) without a credible alternative. The bus service we have in Leeds is largely radial, so a lot of journeys are so long winded that people aren't going to go on the bus.

To get back to the airport here, I am not going to cycle or walk there with my luggage and for most of Leeds is two buses, often one into the city then out back out again. I only live in Headingley, but the only realistic way to get to LBA is by car (either drive or taxi).

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi all
i live in ls 15 and the only way i will travel to L.B.A. is by taxi or my car,when i was working no way would car share work for me same goes for public transport,the leeds road network is dire and should have been sorted years ago.park and ride if it works for you is a good way forward but leeds has just woken up to that.

sm1

 

[Aviador]

Most of the park and ride schemes are to the South of Leeds and even then most people who use them have to travel close to the centre before they can use them. The Elland Road Park & Ride is only 2 miles from the city centre.

 

[Seasider]

It is discussions like this that, although a long way from an airport, I am glad I live in rural East Yorkshire where it is relatively free of traffic most of the year. :hatsoff:

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Maybe like the M606/M621 link you extend the ban on single occupied cars, say during peak rush hours.

The high occupancy lane on the M606 is the single worst thing that happened to the Road network in West Yorkshire in the last 10 years. Since it has been abolished, the traffic flows along the M606 and onto the M62 much better. There is no queuing traffic (that causes local air pollution) and the M62 itself works better as there isn't a large influx of vehicles every couple of minutes - the flow is much steadier and more manageable. I genuinely hope that, when the Chain Bar improvements are completed, they have the good sense to never bring it back.

Re: transport improvements in Airedale and Wharfedale, two new stations are being opened, a raft of road improvement options are on the table, the A65 bus corridor has been opened, the Horsforth Roundabout upgrade completed, the ring road as a whole has a raft of upgrades planned, Armley Gyratory has planned improvements, the North Leeds orbital route is planned, Northern Rail has increased the number of services as demand has increased, expansion of Leeds station to provide more platforms for services from Airedale and Wharfedale are currently being considered etc etc etc. What more do you want? It may well have been neglected for many years but it is now heading in the right direction. The money simply is not available for everything to be done at once, particularly if private enterprise - such as LBA - is not prepared to stump up cash to support it. Let's be honest, if LBA handed over £15m or so, it would already have a rail link.

If it is a case of getting people out of their cars and onto public transport, the focus now has to be on making the public transport option as good as it can be. The rail option is already pretty good and will continue to improve. In my opinion, the bus provision could be A LOT better and it now needs someone to sit down and demand improvements from the service providers. If this means a bus+rail option, brilliant. BUT, it has to be at a decent price. with decent connectivity, with decent parking options. That is where the big wins are going to be.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Swapping sitting on a bus instaed of in a car seems pointless. This report shows bus usage has fallen 35% in the last decade and train use gone up by 110% #http://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/CD10-14%20WARD%20report%20-%20Transport%20Policy%20Comments%2016%20Oct%202013.pdf
People are not going to shift from car to bus and take around 30% longer to do the journey. In the 2011 report I list below, there was nearly 7000 cars an hour in the evening rush hour on the A65, with the increase in traffic flow over the last 5 years you need over 100 buses an hour to make a dent.
The 2011 report noted that Bikes, car share and walking were the keys for the future, not sure we have made any progress over the last 5 years in this direction orplan to do so in the next 5 years.
https://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyre ... 0and71.pdf

 

[michael]

:s_bored :s_bored :s_mad :s_mad
I'm just relieved that I live up the dales and don't have all this twaddle to deal with every day. And when all is said and done all this new road will do is move traffic half a mile further on to queue - like the Bingley bypass did. It's the old thing of 'do we live to work ' or 'do we work to live?' It's a sad fact that the usual school day and the usual work day run on very similar hours and until there is more flexible working hours more commonly allowing office staff to work, say, 5am to 2pm or 12noon to 9pm nothing will change. Correct me if I am wrong please when when the schools are off traffic is alot lighter??????

Edit:: oh yes, I forgot, those flexible hours are called shifts :whiteflag: