Loganair

[Finger66]

And there were we agreeing someone was LBA's number 1 fan. Clearly not! He has certainly disappointed me in all this. Yes a business has to run profitably but why compete elsewhere when you can have a route to yourself. Unless he knows something we don't of course! He is very much ITK

 

[cmj]

I believe that MAN regularly gets it's LHR service cancelled and messed about with by BA. I was surprised to see Norwich having 4 flights a day but will that continue when the Fokkers go who knows?

I think there is (was?) a fair bit of off-shore traffic to/from NWI.

Looking at wiki, the 'low cost' operators don't really serve there, so other than Malaga or Alicante (flyBe), or Tenerrife (Thomson) if you want to go abroad from Norwich it's either a charter, or connect in AMS with KLM.

 

[a300boy]

I have just watched the final Saab 340 land.
Goodbye Loganair hope you are the last airline to leave but suspect you wont be.

 

[twevsmiff]

I have just watched the final Saab 340 land.
Goodbye Loganair hope you are the last airline to leave but suspect you wont be.

Ever the optimist

 

[lbaspotter]

Might as well close this thread. Airline run by an so called LBA supporter and walks away as his bigger fish to fry!

 

[Starflyer]

Goodness me, you'd think someone had re-enacted the Great Train Robbery, uncovered the truth about who shot JFK and axed the Glasgow/Leeds route all in one if you read this thread! As a some-time lurker and reader of these boards, here's what the individual concerned had to say in an e-mail which I do have his permission to reproduce.

Thanks for the note. Friday will be a sad day given our last GLA/LBA flight, but it's not before a lot of effort has gone into trying to head off the need to close the route. I'd not heard of any comments and hadn't received any e-mails about it, so was a bit surprised to see the various postings!

There are a few different factors behind the decision. Firstly, Brexit means that the USD:GBP exchange rate has tipped against us, so things like fuel, maintenance costs and insurance now cost around 30% more than they did before the Brexit vote. When that accounts for over a third of your costs, it means that every route has become 10-15% more expensive to fly than it did before, and if the route was only marginally profitable beforehand, it automatically becomes loss-making if nothing else changes.

We've worked to try to grow volumes on GLA/LBA by reducing fares. The volume has gone up quite well, but the reduced average fare and extra costs mean that we're not achieving any improvement from the results before doing so. Looking at passenger numbers alone, the route should be flying given the huge growth - but it hasn't contributed to the bottom line in any material way.

The other issues are that LBA's effective monopoly handling agent's charges are way higher than any other airport to which we fly for a Saab 340 turnround - over 40% more than we pay at airports like Glasgow and Manchester - and a reduction in ground handling rates an issue that the airport needs to address to achieve sustainable growth regardless of the destination to which airlines choose to fly. On top of that, the departure routes ex LBA (the NELSA SID) add flying time to the route which also drives up the cost of flying.

Putting this all together means that we've tried our best, but still can't achieve a sustainable return from flying the route. I'm disappointed that the end result is to fly our last service on 4 August, but there are occasions when the head has to overrule the heart and take a sensible yet unwelcome decision.

All the best,


Quite a lot of issues not discussed on here yet, but all of which are very reasonable and explain why the route wasn't working.

 

[Finger66]

Very interesting indeed and I think it just goes to show there are so many additional factors many of us failed to consider or are even blissfully unaware of. White Heather I think there is definitely something you need to pick up with the Airport Management around handling costs. Based on the comprehensive reply above then I withdraw any previous comments about doubting the committment of LBA's number 1 fan. However disappointing the loss of the route is, he has clearly had his business head on and has in his own words ensured the head ruled the heart. Operating costs may just be a factor that are preventing Eastern from jumping straight on to the route then!

 

[White Heather]

I will ask the question by issuing a formal letter to LBA, which they are supposed to answer at the next meeting in September. Of course LBA don't directly control handling agent ramp costs but if the charges they are making for a Saab are over inflated to the point where they are helping push Loganair away, then they should be aware and hopefully our new MD will do something about it. Whether or not he can do it now is another matter - if there is a contract in place and it doesn't allow variations they I guess it will be something to address when the time comes to renew.

 

[Aviador]

It is not the first time I've heard the suggestion handling fees are too expensive. It's been banded about for years since the days when Jet2 initially set up and probably the reason why Jet2 went self-handling. Despite this, many handling firms say the margins are too small and lowering fees puts them at risk of going out of business. I think the eventual outcome will be that airports will have to provide their own handling if they are to offer the kind of deals required to attract smaller airline ops.

 

[oldendays]

Ironically, there was a time when passenger and ramp handling at Leeds was provided by three companies. In the 1970s, Dan-Air looked after themselves only, British Airways did likewise plus Aer Lingus and Servisair did the rest, e.g. Air Anglia, BIA and Britannia. Back then, total commercial traffic just didn't warrant three service providers. More recently, i.e. up to about five or six years ago, we had Aviance, Servisair and Jet2 dealing with a significantly higher volume of traffic. Now, when some competition at the check-in desks and aircraft tugs is called for, it's not there. The picture at Birmingham is much the same, albeit on a larger scale.

I would suggest the increasing demands of airlines since the advent of budget travel and the reluctance of Handling Companies to turn away business is feeding the race to the bottom and causing Handling Companies to merge, be bought out or fold altogether. It's killing competition so the likes of Swissport have captive markets and can theoretically call the shots. When such a situation threatens air services then the aforementioned race needs a restart and an about-face.

 

[Britannia94]

Find it ironic when I loaded up this thread, it popped up an advert advertising loganair services from other airports.

I did say this in another thread somewhere in which an airline may decide not to fly from LBA due to the choice of ground handling services. With jet2 only handling their own operations this just leaves swissport to handle all the other airlines such as, KLM, BA, Monarch, Ryanair etc from LBA. This in turns does give them a monopoly over what fees to charge for their services. In a ideal world we need another operator to come onto the scene at LBA. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Perhaps with Finger66 setting up his own airline, someone else could set up a ground handling agent for his operations and other airlines If I could financially look at doing I would

 

[Jerry]

With Jet2 such a large presence at the airport why don't they handle other airlines like Loganair? Especially during the winter when their operations are quieter?

 

[oldendays]

The answer Jerry is, I think, quality control. Jet2 is a company that prides itself massively on its customer service product, from the time of booking to boarding the aircraft. Introduce third party handling responsibilities and the product is diluted and thus jeopardised. I don't mean to sound like a Jet2 commercial soundbite, it's just my perspective.

However, that is the status quo. It's not beyond possibility that all of Jet2's handling will be brought in house before long, in the UK at least. At the moment it's just at Leeds, Manchester and East Midlands and the smart money is on Birmingham being next, given the Swissport difficulties. This could possibly coincide with Dart Group separating the handling from the primary airline business as a separate company within the Group. That would be the moment to aim at third party contracts, with a view to providing a high quality service at that a price to match. As I suggested upthread, airlines are increasingly wanting more for less and that it's time that ugly trend was reversed.

 

[Finger66]

So I now challenge my earlier comment of having a business head on! Why on earth would Loganair have decided to go head to head against Eastern on MME - ABZ with a once a day MME - NWI link. That will lose more money than LBA - GLA in my opinion! Unless of course T3 are to withdraw from the route and redeploy on LBA - GLA. Sadly I suspect not. Airlines seem to want to go head to head rather than have a route to themselves.

 

[a300boy]

Seems a funny decision !
Maybe they know something we do not and judging by the comment made by Loganair we are unlikely to see them at Lba any time soon.

 

[Jerry]

So I now challenge my earlier comment of having a business head on! Why on earth would Loganair have decided to go head to head against Eastern on MME - ABZ with a once a day MME - NWI link. That will lose more money than LBA - GLA in my opinion! Unless of course T3 are to withdraw from the route and redeploy on LBA - GLA. Sadly I suspect not. Airlines seem to want to go head to head rather than have a route to themselves.

That decision seems to me to be a reaction to the Eastern Airlines Flybe franchise in Scotland. A case of well your moving into our territory and so we'll put our tanks on your lawn!

 

[lbaspotter]

Ironic really that Loganair are starting 3x daily ABZ-MME and 1x daily MME-NWI. It wasn't that long ago the was talk of them extending the recently axed LBA-GLA onto NWI on here.

Oh well lets hope Eastern Airways/flybe.com can be LBA saving grace..

 

[oldendays]

Eastern would do well to save themselves before racing to the aid of regional airports. Women and children first, of course...

 

[oldendays]

I would like to see an alternative to Swissport at Leeds, and any other major airport saddled with a single Handling Company. But for that to happen, the whole relationship between airline (customer) and service provider (Handling Company) needs re-evaluating and realigning so that there is a far greater meeting of minds between the two parties. I'm not privy to boardroom doings but I would suggest there is a significant shortfall in the cost of services required and what is actually being paid. What is needed is a ballsy business voice to say, 'If this is what you require, THIS is what it will cost you. What
you are prepared to pay is another matter.' And walk away if costs aren't going to be met. Needless to say, delivering those services is a must so make sure the equipment and well-paid staff are in place.

 

[oldendays]

This thread may as well be retitled 'Handling Agents'. It's taken that direction now and it seems pointless talking about Loganberry now they're history round here. At least their departure from Leeds has highlighted the Handling Agent issues.

Incidentally, I don't for one second buy Hinkles' suggestion that the NELSA SID was a factor in Logan going away. All major airports have SIDS (and STARS) so deal with it. Was the Pole Hill SID off RW14 also relevant, I wonder ?