British Airways

[Superleeds123]

Unfortunately White Heather, the leaders in the NW actually value their airport and the services it gains. It’s clear that LCC and its local MP’s and Councillors have no interest in helping the airport, other than to block any glimmer of progress.

I was gobsmacked earlier this week when someone pointed me to two videos on Extinction Rebellion Leeds Facebook page with interviews from Alex Sobel and two councillors about the LBA application from June this year. Let’s just say they were pretty clear which side of the fence they sit on.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Yet again, Manchester and the NW is favoured over Leeds and Yorkshire, despite Leeds being the biggest financial centre outside London.

I sometimes wonder if all these Northern Powerhouse bods from the North West, aided by our traitorous MPs are claiming to support all of the North publicly but favouring the NW behind the scenes and ensuring that if anyone is sacrificed, it's not them.

the leeds city region does actually have the largest economy outside London, its wacky when you look at the size of the economy in west Yorkshire esp in leeds and the city centre itself with its huge financial core, yet we all have to travel to MAN for our flights! The transport infrastructure in our part of the world is just awful.

 

[Bigman]

So, BA kick us in the teeth again, and HS2 Eastern leg looks like it will be kicked into touch. At least some things in life are normal.

 

[Len Fish]

I suppose the difference is the politicians in the North West are positive and proactive, on this side of the Pennines they’re negative and reactionary so little wonder central Government favours the North West when it’s dishing out the infrastructure projects and the funding.

 

[White Heather]

Trouble is this region attracts the negative MPs like ants to sugar. So we end up with anti aviation MPs who come from other parts such as Rachel Reeves and Hilary Benn doing their very best to destroy aviation in this area.
I hope very much that the prospective Mayor, Tracey Brabin is more enlightened than the idiots we have in Leeds (and Bradford).

 

[Len Fish]

Tracey Brabin is currently my MP and from what I can tell does seem to have her head screwed on the right way, she was born locally so unlike many others has not been parachuted in from elsewhere.

 

[KARFA]

I appreciate this concern over MAN getting more connections to London. However LBA had connections, for the first 5 years most days had 3 rotations, and even after the cut in 2018 there were still at least 1 rotation a day, with some having 2.

Fundamentally, regardless of all the talk of the Leeds region being an economically important and having a large financial presence, the flights were not used enough. Just before the 2018 cuts the loads have just managed to creep up above 70%, and from 2018-2021 were about mid 70s. BA is not stupid and will run services where they are profitable. At the end of the day LBA was not used enough and it was one (of many) routes BA has suspended. We can only hope when international travel opens up again and travel picks up BA comes back - it certainly is possible.

If people want airlines to come to LBA they have to use them when they are there, otherwise they will go.

 

[a300boy]

So true ! Use it or loose it. However the route was messed with quite a lot with frequency changes and times making it less attractive.
Just like when BM regional screwed up our Brussels services.

 

[LBA4EVER]

I appreciate this concern over MAN getting more connections to London. However LBA had connections, for the first 5 years most days had 3 rotations, and even after the cut in 2018 there were still at least 1 rotation a day, with some having 2.

Fundamentally, regardless of all the talk of the Leeds region being an economically important and having a large financial presence, the flights were not used enough. Just before the 2018 cuts the loads have just managed to creep up above 70%, and from 2018-2021 were about mid 70s. BA is not stupid and will run services where they are profitable. At the end of the day LBA was not used enough and it was one (of many) routes BA has suspended. We can only hope when international travel opens up again and travel picks up BA comes back - it certainly is possible.

If people want airlines to come to LBA they have to use them when they are there, otherwise they will go.

Once again though its all down to the image of LBA, the little airport on the hill that has no flights or that's at least what most people think so naturally book from MAN! like ive stated before once LBA gets its new proper terminal this image of LBA will change, airlines will want to use the airport and passenger numbers will grow.

 

[Finger66]

Exactly why KLM do so well. Reliable service at the right times of day, including great connections. There is no doubt BA could have made a better job with suitable timIngs. BA's product does still sell itself, but there is far more too it than just a brand to make things attractive to potential customers. And in BA's case the missing ingredient was a suitably timed schedule

 

[KARFA]

Exactly why KLM do so well. Reliable service at the right times of day, including great connections. There is no doubt BA could have made a better job with suitable timings. BA's product does still sell itself, but there is far more too it than just a brand to make things attractive to potential customers. And in BA's case the missing ingredient was a suitably timed schedule

Had the flights at any time been more than 50-60% full in years 1-4, I am sure BA would have quickly looked to optimise schedules. They were not, so BA didn't.

 

[a300boy]

So no blame on them then ? I think we get the picture.

 

[White Heather]

The schedules we had were never ideal and poor for many worldwide connections. No surprise therefore that some were still having little option but to book through MAN.

A night-stopper with early departure would have made a huge difference. Less flights and more appropriate times would have made the route more successful. Constantly chopping and changing flight times and frequent cancellations was a recipe for failure, and fail they did. There is only so many times people will put up with the disruption before voting with their feet.

 

[a300boy]

If my memory serves me correctly the airport ran an advertising program for them and offered discounted lounge and car parking charges.
Lets hope they have another look at us when things get back to normal.

 

[Coathanger16]

Something to bear in mind is the logistics involved - whilst those on this forum will look at a LBA-LHR route in the context of Leeds, BA will have to look at it in the context of their entire network (both SH and LH).

Where would the aircraft come from to night stop in LBA? Either another destination would lose a night stop, or it was an aircraft that would have night stopped at Heathrow, in which case that aircraft would have had to be taken off an LHR evening arrival from another destination.

There's then hotel and transport costs for a minimum of 10 crew.

Plus the morning arrival into LHR would use a slot that another route currently uses.

Basically, what will make more money? An aircraft night stopping at LBA, night stopping somewhere else or operating a late return flight from somewhere else. Plus what's the slot in question worth? An LBA night stopper or a long haul arrival from the USA for example.

With capacity constrained (pre-Covid), the yield must be good. With cash flow critical (current situation), the yield must be good.

Think LBA's best bet in the near future is that BA leases slots out to 3rd parties (to slot sit) and the likes of Eastern pick the route up.

 

[a300boy]

Was it not a condition of the third runway at Heathrow being built to improve regional connectivity within the Uk ?
How about the Inverness, Aberdeen or Glasgow flights operating up and down via Lba ?

 

[KARFA]

Was it not a condition of the third runway at Heathrow being built to improve regional connectivity within the Uk ?
How about the Inverness, Aberdeen or Glasgow flights operating up and down via Lba ?

It might be a condition, but we are a long way from having the third runway.

BA would not do that - although another airline might do I guess. BA have healthy demand from all of those places already, a stop on the way at LBA is of no interest.

Interesting you mention INV, this started as a route by BA a few years ago (around 2017 I think?) without a night stopper. After good loads it got one.

 

[Coathanger16]

A third runway is at least 7/8 years away assuming no more delays, and even then it'll depend what the allocation of slots are - which are done by an independent body, so nothing to do with the airport picking the "big airlines"!

Not sure it was a condition, but the idea of ring-fencing slots specifically for domestic flights has been floated.

 

[lbaspotter]

This is the latest reply @Plane watcher had from British Airways regards the suspended Leeds/Bradford - Heathrow route

https://twitter.com/x/status/1395647738440732672

 

[CM.]

Thanks for showing my reply.