KLM

[LBAYORKIE]

Only KLM knows what's going on it could be anything from operational restraints to demand and they may well need the bigger aircraft at other airports. Their network is pretty big tbf. Personally I would wonder if an extra frequency would be better than bigger aircraft but they may have challenges with slots at AMS.
As for another hub airline at LBA until LBA attracts one then its going to be an unknown as to whether it would push KLM off the route or spur them into adding more capacity.

I would agree 4 x E170 a day is better than 3 x E190 from a passenger perspective but as you say slots at AMS could be an issue.

 

[White Heather]

I would agree 4 x E170 a day is better than 3 x E190 from a passenger perspective but as you say slots at AMS could be an issue.

Some may recall that years ago, KLM UK (or maybe Air UK) operated 6 Fokker 50 flights daily from LBA after withdrawing the jet services. Didn't take too long though before the Fokker 100s and 70s were back and we went back to 4 daily I think.

 

[Jerry]

Flew out on the 10.00 departure today and it wasn't a full flight. With the fog I was surprised that it was able to land at the first attempt but it did and now I'm in Amsterdam after a wonderful flight.
Next flight Air France to CDG on the A220.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

their responsibility is to get them to their destination and look at other airlines - not just KLM or even just skyteam. there are no seats on KLM from ATH to LBA today so has your friend been confirmed?

the only thing that doesn't apply for weather (usually) is compensation. all other entitlements to rebooking and duty of care apply regardless of the reason for the delay/cancellation.

i hope your friend has promoted them to look at all UK airports and not just LBA. i don't believe for one second there have been no seats over the last 4 days to MAN/LBA/LHR/LGW/NCL etc. on BA/A3/LH/LX/EI/AF/SN/IB/U2 etc. at the end of the day i would have taken something to anywhere in England or GLA/EDI and got the train home - the train fare would be claimable from KLM. your friend should push them to look at these other options - and if they refuse it will feed in to the compensation issue i note below.

KLM are also responsible for expenses (hotel & meals) whilst your friend is stuck in ATH so they should claim that all back from KLM.

normally compensation would not apply for weather. but if the airline doesn't actually take opportunities to rebook them on other airlines to get them home days earlier, it does become payable. not something to worry about today, but it is something to look at when they are back.

their responsibility is to get them to their destination and look at other airlines - not just KLM or even just skyteam. there are no seats on KLM from ATH to LBA today so has your friend been confirmed?

the only thing that doesn't apply for weather (usually) is compensation. all other entitlements to rebooking and duty of care apply regardless of the reason for the delay/cancellation.

i hope your friend has promoted them to look at all UK airports and not just LBA. i don't believe for one second there have been no seats over the last 4 days to MAN/LBA/LHR/LGW/NCL etc. on BA/A3/LH/LX/EI/AF/SN/IB/U2 etc. at the end of the day i would have taken something to anywhere in England or GLA/EDI and got the train home - the train fare would be claimable from KLM. your friend should push them to look at these other options - and if they refuse it will feed in to the compensation issue i note below.

KLM are also responsible for expenses (hotel & meals) whilst your friend is stuck in ATH so they should claim that all back from KLM.

normally compensation would not apply for weather. but if the airline doesn't actually take opportunities to rebook them on other airlines to get them home days earlier, it does become payable. not something to worry about today, but it is something to look at when they are back.

Just to finish this story off and correct the odd point.

My friend was stuck in AMS, not Athens as I thought.

She arrived from ATH late on the Sunday afternoon. They boarded the late flight to Leeds but sat waiting for deicing. 40 mins later the flight was cancelled.

They got off the aircraft only to find KL's customer service staff had left at 22:00. The nearest hotel with availability was 6km away so she booked it and got a taxi.

Im not sure what happened next but I know there were several text messages and eventually KL got her a flight back to MAN early on the Thursday morning.

She was told by KL that as weather was outside their control they would not pay for her accommodation, she has nevertheless submitted a claim for her expenses.

She really likes KLM but said the ground staff were pretty useless. She uses LBA-AMS regularly so I hope this doesnt put her off.

 

[KARFA]

Thanks for the update.

She was told by KL that as weather was outside their control they would not pay for her accommodation, she has nevertheless submitted a claim for her expenses.

that is an utterly disgusting lie by those KLM agents. duty of care always applies regardless of reason for delay/cancellation. the only thing in the UK/EC261 which relates to reason is compensation. there is no ambiguity or suggestion anywhere that KLM shouldn't have to pay for hotels and meals in the situation you describe.

if KLM still refuse, the options of CEDR (not sure whether KLM subscribe to this arbitration) or MCOL will force the correct decision.

 

[Aviador]

As for another hub airline at LBA until LBA attracts one then its going to be an unknown as to whether it would push KLM off the route or spur them into adding more capacity.

A new hub operation will just bring a host of new route possibilities, not necessarily the same routes covered by a different airline so it shouldn't lead to any rotations being cancelled.

 

[Jerry]

A new hub operation will just bring a host of new route possibilities, not necessarily the same routes covered by a different airline so it shouldn't lead to any rotations being cancelled.

Depends who the airline is i suppose. Obviously an airline like Air France or SAS would look to complement KLM rather than be a challenge but Lufthansa or Lufthansa group or British Airways would be looking to take their passengers and be a competitor. A ME3/Turkish would be a bit different and may offer different connections and be less of a competitor especially on European routes.

 

[Aviador]

Depends who the airline is i suppose. Obviously an airline like Air France or SAS would look to complement KLM rather than be a challenge but Lufthansa or Lufthansa group or British Airways would be looking to take their passengers and be a competitor. A ME3/Turkish would be a bit different and may offer different connections and be less of a competitor especially on European routes.

As an example, Iberia will have an array of destinations serving South America where Air France will serve Africa best.

 

[Jerry]

As an example, Iberia will have an array of destinations serving South America where Air France will serve Africa best.

KLM does serve South America quite decently not as good as Iberia but there'd know doubt could be some transfer of passengers.

 

[gulftraveller]

Iberia has shown itself to be uncertain in its commitment to MAN or EDi. An unlikely option for other UK airports at the moment. Air France is more likely.

 

[Aviador]

Iberia has shown itself to be uncertain in its commitment to MAN or EDi. An unlikely option for other UK airports at the moment. Air France is more likely.

It was only hypothetically speaking.

 

[Jerry]

Although I'm enjoying the views here at Schipol. I do wish KLM hadn't scrapped the lunchtime flight.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I recently booked 4 tickets from Leeds to Billund total cost £976.

Out interest I checked the cost of 4 tickets from Leeds to Amsterdam and return, using the same dates and LBA AMS LBA flights and the cost was £874.

It just illustrates the point that for onward connections KLM are good value. Where they are expensive is on flights only to Amsterdam, presumably because theres no competition.

Only £102 difference. Depending how you look at it you could say thats £25 per person for the AMS-BLL-AMS legs..

 

[Jerry]

I recently booked 4 tickets from Leeds to Billund total cost £976.

Out interest I checked the cost of 4 tickets from Leeds to Amsterdam and return, using the same dates and LBA AMS LBA flights and the cost was £874.

It just illustrates the point that for onward connections KLM are good value. Where they are expensive is on flights only to Amsterdam, presumably because theres no competition.

Only £102 difference. Depending how you look at it you could say thats £25 per person for the AMS-BLL-AMS legs..

As an airline there not that bothered about people travelling to Amsterdam but want to encourage people to travel via Amsterdam and fill up their other flights hence expensive Amsterdam only flights.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

As an airline there not that bothered about people travelling to Amsterdam but want to encourage people to travel via Amsterdam and fill up their other flights hence expensive Amsterdam only flights.

Yes, I know. This comparison was intended to provide actual.numbers.

 

[norjet806]

Just been checking the KLM booking site and from 27th February we are scheduled to have B737-700's on the KL1024 teatime flights, Mondays and Fridays initially, and then on Tuesdays as well until 27th March.

 

[Finger66]

The good news is GDS mirrors that. Tue looks to start from 10Mar. Plus the 4th daily is back from next Mon, 23Feb but no sign of that continuing into the summer schedules

 

[lbaspotter]

Looks like we have No KLM night stopper tonight.

 

[YorkshireLad]

Some random departures have been removed recently. Also today both departures have been E195-E2s - PH-NXY on KL1018 and PH-NXF on KL1020

 

[752]

KLM's 4th daily restarted again today, such a shame its for a short period