Archive Route Development & Rumours

[ethanegcc]

Will this mean another Chinese route by next summer then user001? Is the PVG link going to happen and be announced in Charlie Cornish's conference on 21st oct? Will HU go daily?


This is certainly great news.

 

[Jerry]

Great news for MAN but i'm wondering if this could also mean other regional airports may start seeing the Chinese versions of TCX and TOM with the odd holiday flight?

 

[ethanegcc]

I would say there is a good chance of EDI/BHX receiving scheduled PEK flights, but with User saying MAN will move quickly it got me exicted. Will PVG finally now happen?

 

[User001]

Great news for MAN but i'm wondering if this could also mean other regional airports may start seeing the Chinese versions of TCX and TOM with the odd holiday flight?

There was nothing stopping this anyway, as charter flights are exempt from the bilateral.

 

[ethanegcc]

The 1/1 rules still applies but I can tell you now, 7 of those new slots will be snapped up immediately!

4 PVG and an extra 3 to make daily PEK?

I am presuming PVG will still be CA as they still hold the rights? If MAN are moving quickly then could their be an official announcement by November?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Just a reminder here. About a year ago, around the time of President Xi's visit to the UK, an agreement was announced which allocated 12 additional frequencies to each country's carriers for use exclusively on routes between UK regional airports and China. In other words, 24 weekly departures are already permitted between the UK regions and China under bilateral arrangements agreed at that time. To my knowledge, just four of these slot pairs are in current use (Hainan Airlines MAN-PEK), so 20 available slot pairs have not yet been put to use.

Presumably, the new bilateral agreement just announced supercedes this. But, in view of the above, the restricted airports under those old arrangements were those serving London. Regional airports including Manchester already had bilateral access to open up new routes to China if the airlines wished to launch them. So if anything, these new arrangements now open the door for carriers to consider launching additional scheduled services to London rather than being limited to a choice of BHX, MAN, EDI etc as was the case before. Given the limited number of aircraft earmarked to serve the UK-China market, this probably isn't the greatest news for MAN.

Sorry for the reality check!

 

[User001]

The regional airport bilateral was never actually conscripted. It was an idea to help regional routes grow as, at the time, a new full scale bilateral couldn't seem to be agreed.

This meant that just 40 one way slots were available for all of the U.K., to which 39 were taken and used, and that has held up our PVG as it needs 4 slots. The U.K. DfT and CAAC agreed in principal that the route could be served, but the actual bilateral, as well as slots at Shanghai, have delayed our flight.

Both issues have now been resolved so movement will happen quickly. Hainan have also been waiting on this as they have a strong desire for a daily B787 flight but thus far could not do it.

I fully expect that by the end of November, we will have a daily Beijing and 4 weekly Shanghai will be bookable.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Thanks for the clarification. Fingers crossed it is then!

 

[ethanegcc]

The regional airport bilateral was never actually conscripted. It was an idea to help regional routes grow as, at the time, a new full scale bilateral couldn't seem to be agreed.

This meant that just 40 one way slots were available for all of the U.K., to which 39 were taken and used, and that has held up our PVG as it needs 4 slots. The U.K. DfT and CAAC agreed in principal that the route could be served, but the actual bilateral, as well as slots at Shanghai, have delayed our flight.

Both issues have now been resolved so movement will happen quickly. Hainan have also been waiting on this as they have a strong desire for a daily B787 flight but thus far could not do it.

I fully expect that by the end of November, we will have a daily Beijing and 4 weekly Shanghai will be bookable.

So do you know that Hainan will go daily 788? And Shanghai will launch - is that the reason of the increased connectivity with Shanghai speech by Charlie Cornish? I am presuming it is still Air China 332.

Great news all around to see more things of our list ticked off.

 

[Scottie Dog]

With all of the new flights reported as being introduced for Summer 2017 can I ask whether they are subject to slot approval?

The reason I ask is that, as far as I'm aware the Slot Request deadline was only closed on 6th October and it must therefore be too soon for approval to have been granted.

Can user001 or any other member with the required knowledge confirm when the ACL preliminary report for S17 will be available? I understand that the start of season report is not published until a date in March.

Finally I see that the ACL Capacity Declaration for Summer 2017 shows the same values as this year with the addition of a additional 3 movements in the hour commencing 2200.

Thanks in advance for any information.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Runway slots for a Chinese long-haul service into MAN will not be a problem. Firstly, based upon what User001 has indicated, Hainan Airlines would require an additional three slot pairs per week. But their schedule sees CHH7903 arrive MAN at 06:05 local time (and in practice often an hour earlier than this). There is no runway access concern based on these timings, nor on the corresponding outbound service around midday.

Air China's proposed timings remain to be seen. If a morning arrival, non-stop services from China tend to request extremely early slots (before peak demand kicks in). This shouldn't be an issue. If an evening service, MAN does not have runway congestion concerns. Of course, slots are required at the Chinese end of the route also; I can't comment on the state of play with these. MAN probably has more of an issue with widebody-capable terminal contact stand availability at peak times.

Looking generally at runway slots, MAN's main challenge is accommodating additional based units which require daily access to the runway during the morning peak rush (or the whole aircraft is lost to MAN). And of course terminal / parking access for these. A scheduled long-haul service operating three or four times weekly will generally be accommodated with ease at MAN in terms of runway slots.

 

[User001]

The slots for all the proposed flights have been cleared.

Air China and Oman Air will be arriving in the very dead afternoon period at T2, and the new Virgin flights slot in after the short haul based aircraft are gone.

 

[ethanegcc]

The slots for all the proposed flights have been cleared.

Air China and Oman Air will be arriving in the very dead afternoon period at T2, and the new Virgin flights slot in after the short haul based aircraft are gone.

Do you mean the Hainan extra 3 slots also?
Do you know the times for Air China?

Thanks for the info.

 

[User001]

The 3 extra Hainan will be able to slot in with the normal times, T2 capacity may be the issue but remote parking is accepted by Hainan.

Air China off memory is about 1630 in 1900 out IIRC but will need to re-check.

 

[ethanegcc]

The 3 extra Hainan will be able to slot in with the normal times, T2 capacity may be the issue but remote parking is accepted by Hainan.

Air China off memory is about 1630 in 1900 out IIRC but will need to re-check.

Okay, so HU would have no problem gaining the slots. Have the CA flights been assigned a flight number?
I presume they are then both going ahead - any start date estimation for Air China?

 

[jfy1999]

Something a little closer to home!

Londonderry Airport is in the process of getting PSO flights to London after Ryanair announced their intention to pull out of LDY altogether, and Manchester is to be next on the list if all goes well. Will be interesting to see which airline it is. When was LDY last served from MAN?

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/tr...-and-hangar-plan-for-derry-airport-1-7629268?

 

[ethanegcc]

It would be great to get a new link to Northern Ireland.

 

[User001]

MAN-LDY has flybe written all over it. Can't see anyone else doing it.

 

[ethanegcc]

MAN-LDY has flybe written all over it. Can't see anyone else doing it.

Possibly a daily/5 weekly Q400? Ryanair could enter the market I am sure, even if they couldn't implement convenient frequencies.

 

[User001]

Ryanair won't do it, they are pulling out of LDU so the whole point of finding alternative routes/airlines.