Archive Route Development & Rumours

[Scottie Dog]

I understand that Lufthansa Cargo are no longer holding slots for the winter and Hainan are not planning Guangzhou either (well for the time being at least).

 

[User001]

The LH cargo slots are always held under the general Lufthansa allocation. They always get uploaded later on.

 

[Aceshigh]

Gosh Hainan came....
And went......
Within a week!

 

[Scottie Dog]

Gosh Hainan came....
And went......
Within a week!

Guangzhoa has been talked about for about 6 weeks.

 

[Brum X]

Gosh Hainan came....
And went......
Within a week!

You still have Hainain at MAN, anybody new to this forum would think they are quitting MAN by some of your responses.
Be grateful for what you have

 

[Land23R]

You still have Hainain at MAN, anybody new to this forum would think they are quitting MAN by some of your responses.
Be grateful for what you have

I think some got a little excited on account of slot applications. If the rumours about HU and DUB/EDI are correct, I doubt personally we'll see much more at MAN in the immediate future. I think it will be a case of watching the PEK frequencies and a/c type over winter and summer.

 

[ethanegcc]

Slot applications are quite a hint of future ambitions so you can understand why supporters were excited at the prospect of a new connection to Guangzhou.

Very similar to the excitement over additional route speculation of Primera Air at Birmingham, the main difference being, they haven't even got their aircraft on Birmingham's runways and they've already announced two routes!

I think there has been one comment on the issue only and - if I interpret correctly - @Aceshigh was only alluding to the speed at which the rumour arose and has been concluded, not taking Hainan's presence for granted in anyway whatsoever.

There seems to have been a lot of disparaging of Manchester's and it's supporters ambitions recently, but the reality is, Manchester is growing, there are rumours of new routes and aviation enthusiasts are obviously excited about that. This is an aviation forum, and we rejoice at the successes and commiserate the losses of our airports. Whilst BHX member's informative posts are always welcome, if members don't like the aspirations we have or are jealous of our success stories - don't view the Manchester threads!

 

[Brum X]

Slot applications are quite a hint of future ambitions so you can understand why supporters were excited at the prospect of a new connection to Guangzhou.

Very similar to the excitement over additional route speculation of Primera Air at Birmingham, the main difference being, they haven't even got their aircraft on Birmingham's runways and they've already announced two routes!

I think there has been one comment on the issue only and - if I interpret correctly - @Aceshigh was only alluding to the speed at which the rumour arose and has been concluded, not taking Hainan's presence for granted in anyway whatsoever.

There seems to have been a lot of disparaging of Manchester's and it's supporters ambitions recently, but the reality is, Manchester is growing, there are rumours of new routes and aviation enthusiasts are obviously excited about that. This is an aviation forum, and we rejoice at the successes and commiserate the losses of our airports. Whilst BHX member's informative posts are always welcome, if members don't like the aspirations we have or are jealous of our success stories - don't view the Manchester threads!

My comment was meant to be Tongue in cheek chatter but as usual you decide to make it into something more.

I am going to leave it there.

 

[Coathanger16]

Very similar to the excitement over additional route speculation of Primera Air at Birmingham, the main difference being, they haven't even got their aircraft on Birmingham's runways and they've already announced two routes!

There seems to have been a lot of disparaging of Manchester's and it's supporters ambitions recently, but the reality is, Manchester is growing, there are rumours of new routes and aviation enthusiasts are obviously excited about that. This is an aviation forum, and we rejoice at the successes and commiserate the losses of our airports. Whilst BHX member's informative posts are always welcome, if members don't like the aspirations we have or are jealous of our success stories - don't view the Manchester threads!

Now now guys, lets keep this amicable. Its these kinds of statements which set off these 'disputes' that we're all sick of by now

 

[Scottie Dog]

Just doing a catch up on old threads and I've noted that Aer Southeast never started operations having been ordered, by the Irish regulator, to refund all money for selling without a license.

 

[User001]

It will probably never happen. If you can't even do the simple things right like get the right licence, passengers won't have confidence in the rest of the outfit.

 

[Dobbo]

Unserved Long Haul

Based on my perception, and some reasonably well documented facts, these are what I think are the top 5 (by passenger volume only) unserved long haul routes.

1. Bangkok
2. Bombay
3. Delhi
4. Shanghai
5. Kuala Lumpur

Underserved Long Haul

These are routes already served from MAN, but which also have large volumes of "one stop" traffic (e.g. MAN-DXB-HKG). Again, based on my perception only.

1. Cape Town
2. Hong Kong
3. Los Angeles
4. Vancouver
5. Toronto

NB - the above lists do not include routes that are not technically possible. For example, SYD, MEL, AKL, BNE and (for now) PER.

It would be great to hear your views, particularly on the "underserved" list - which will primarily be an exercise of working out where transfer traffic ex MAN via LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC and the MEB3 goes...

Most of my "unserved" are eastbound routes, as TCX have effectively plugged most of the westbound unserved gaps, albeit with low frequency and seasonal service (for now) which is why they make up a reasonable proportion of my underserved routes.

 

[User001]

Well, the good news is that China and the CAAC are going to relax the 'one airline, one route' rule in most cases, so, Hainan might finally get their MAN-PVG ambition....

 

[Dobbo]

If the Chinese CAAC abandon the one airline one route policy, it will be an interesting test of HU's commitment to MAN. There would be a huge temptation to try and jump on traditionally thicker routes to Europe and the USA...

 

[Dobbo]

Some idle speculation from another poster on another site on AA and the old US routes to MAN...

"It was long rumored that PHL-MAN was the most profitable TATL flight in the US system. I've heard from multiple people that the loads of CLT-MAN were good, but without having specific data on yields, I can probably say that the CLT flight diminished PHL-MAN's profitability somewhat. I've also heard from multiple people that should/if a new TATL be launched from CLT-it would be a summer seasonal MAN flight."

Take what you will from this, but interesting none the less.

 

[Dobbo]

Manchester is frequently described as an "outbound" market. That is, the overwhelming majority of passengers originate at the MAN end. It is argued that MAN has relatively little "inbound" traffic (for its size) because MAN and its catchment (the north of England) is not a tourist or commercial hotspot.

Leaving aside the relative size of the "inbound" market, I was wondering if anyone had any idea of which routes (short and long haul) into MAN have the largest inbound market. For example, we are led to believe that China, India and the Middle East are relatively high inbound markets, but the USA and Canada are primarily outbound.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Aceshigh]

Following Dobbo's theme do we also have the split of passenger traffic by catchment area ?

Manchester
Merseyside
North Wales
Yorkshire
Midlands etc

 

[Philbky]

Manchester is frequently described as an "outbound" market. That is, the overwhelming majority of passengers originate at the MAN end. It is argued that MAN has relatively little "inbound" traffic (for its size) because MAN and its catchment (the north of England) is not a tourist or commercial hotspot.

Leaving aside the relative size of the "inbound" market, I was wondering if anyone had any idea of which routes (short and long haul) into MAN have the largest inbound market. For example, we are led to believe that China, India and the Middle East are relatively high inbound markets, but the USA and Canada are primarily outbound.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

My first thought is that as, according to official Visit Britain figures, Manchester is the second most visited city by overseas tourists in the UK with Liverpool fourth and Manchester is the lead city outside London for business visits from overseas.

 

[Chilly Dog]

From overseas...there's been a concerted effort in the last couple of years.

The last 6+ months in Australia there has been heavy promotion of northern England from Visit Britain.

 

[Aceshigh]

That's excellent but the landing pages of the web site itself are so weighted toward London I'm suprised anybody gets beyind the M25.

Probably one for the "Outside Influences" thread but anybody alighting on the header page and then seeing

Attractions
Sightseeing
Transport etc

....will initially be greeted with a glut of special offers which are ALL 100% focused on London.

Essentially you have to be "already interested" in visiting the regions and make a detailed conscious effort to visit those pages.

Why not have Scotland, Manchester, York, Chester, Stratford, Liverpool , Wales or the Lake District at least appearing "occasionally " as a banner headline?

They are swamped by a tsunami of London images, offers of all varieties!

You almost have to be guided by your tour company or already have a forensic knowledge of where you wish to go !

That is not seeing Britain it's selling London!