United Airlines

[Ray Finkle]

It appears United may well be one of the discussion points for the upcoming consultative committee meeting (16th Sept). I don't want to use the word worrying but.......

Castle Bromwich Parish Council (Cllr J Whelan) – referred to the joint campaign that was
being planned to promote both business and leisure flights for United Airlines. Cllr Whelan
sought further information on the routes associated with that campaign (existing and future
routes). In response, The Airport Company (Paul Kehoe) also informed the Committee that
this was a great opportunity, but not without its challenges – particularly for business flights.


Chelmsley Wood Town Council (Cllr E Tomkins) – asked if there was any risk of losing the
(United Airlines) Newark route. The Airport Company (Paul Kehoe) informed the Committee
that the viability of the route was basic customer demand and it would be good news for
Birmingham if passengers kept filling up flights. However, a key consideration was aircraft
choice – people preferred wide bodied aircraft and those flew from the London airports.
Boeing 757’s flew from Birmingham and those were coming towards the end of their
operational life so it was uncertain at this point in time what United Airlines would do. The
Committee was advised that the operator would either invest in new aircraft and continue
flying from Birmingham or stop that particular service as the two likely scenarios.

http://www.ukaccs.info/bham/bhxaccagenda160914.pdf

 

[thunderchild]

United fly the 757s to so many European points that I find it quite hard to believe that all these routes would go when the 757s are retired. A 787 transatlantic fleet configured correctly would be the logical step forward - and co-incidentally they have 35 options for just that. I should imagine the economics of the 787 would also work better against the ageing 757s and would therefore be an ideal way of increasing capacity without killing the yield by going twice daily.

 

[CL44]

While yes the 757's are geting on a bit (does anyone have the breakdown on age of the UA fleet?) I feel the frames still have an amount of life left in them. I flew out in July from BHX to EWR and the flight was perfectly acceptable for my part. While the seat pitch in the back was not brilliant it was ok for the journey. The IFE (when fully loaded) was reasonable (my comment about fully loaded is that part of the selection was not available on either journey), and the facilities were not as bad as others I have used in the past.

Yes UA does use these frames on the long thin routes (which is what the 787 was designed for) and for BHX to EWR it is the best frame possible. Please bear in mind that UA will put the correct aircraft into each destination. If BHX could substantiate 24+ PAX in Business then they would put an aircraft in with 24+ Business seats. If there was a demand for 200+ Economy (never liked the word coach) PAX then guess what? We would not be seeing a 757. I have said this previously regarding services from BHX. USE IT OR LOOSE IT. UA (like every other Airline) is designed to make money for their shareholders / owners. If the demand is there then they will accomodate the demand. Look what happened with AA (and so many more Airlines operating from BHX). There was just not enough demand to require a 767 on the route to ORD. Then we had 9-11 and Airlines started cancelling flights left right and centre. That was enough of a reason for AA to pull the service.

It is all well and good in saying that we want to see XYZ airline flying *** aircraft (insert which ever type you want) from BHX to wherever, but, if the Airline will not make money on the route then it will not operate (please ignore the fact about Air India only making money on 2 or their 59 int'l routes as they are a special case ). Personally I would not be too surprised if (in a few years time) we see 787's coming into BHX for EWR but only if the demand is there. Otherwise it will stay as a 757 (or whatever else is available that can safely do the route without restrictions).

 

[Ray Finkle]

United look to be down from 6 to 5x weekly for Jan (no Tue & Thur) and 4x weekly for Feb (no Tue, Wed & Thur) :s_sad

 

[justplanecrazy]

Is that down to Iceland air starting do you think?

 

[Ray Finkle]

That's a very good point, it could well be a contributing factor.

 

[Brum X]

Re: Extra Capacity to New York.

With todays announcement that United will start a seasonal 5x weekly from EWR-NCL (Good luck to them) Thomas Cook launching flights from MAN and now this rumour that AA are to start BHX;JFK, is this a bit too much capacity and overkill ??????

 

[User0001]

Theres also a Delta MAN-JFK too.

 

[Brum X]

Theres also a Delta MAN-JFK too.

I get a feeling there are going to be casulaties.

 

[User0001]

Its been widely accepted that NCL has dangled a very large carrot in front of United for their route. The fact it is 5 weekly and only lasts 3 months gives the impression that United are still not convinced that NCL is a keeper.

I would love to be proven wrong, but, I don't see NCL-EWR back in 2016.

Also, TCX at MAN will be a hit or miss. They may find it tough carving a niche in a market with just 3 weekly flights on a route with 3 other daily flights. They will be able to leverage the lower yield 'pack em in cheap' approach, but, its a risky move for what used to be a charter only carrier against 3 different hub carriers.

DL MAN-JFK will be just fine. Its being sold across the Delta and Virgin platforms, and Delta is pushing VS to use MAN in a bigger way, so, should be fine.

AA on BHX-JFK, well, no offence to BHX, but, its going to be a watch and see. As noted, oneworld doesn't seem to have the commitment at BHX, and 2 daily to the USA at BHX has always been tricky, so, will be interesting to see if history repeats, or, if the extra frequency can finally pay off. I would like to think BHX can sustain 2 daily, however.

 

[Aviador]

I recall watching a BBC breakfast programme a few months back where it claimed US travel companies are now pushing Birmingham as a must see destination. It said American tourists were being told "forget London, head to middle England to Birmingham where it's all happening". Did anybody else recall seeing the programme?

 

[Brum X]

Its been widely accepted that NCL has dangled a very large carrot in front of United for their route. The fact it is 5 weekly and only lasts 3 months gives the impression that United are still not convinced that NCL is a keeper.

I would love to be proven wrong, but, I don't see NCL-EWR back in 2016.

Also, TCX at MAN will be a hit or miss. They may find it tough carving a niche in a market with just 3 weekly flights on a route with 3 other daily flights. They will be able to leverage the lower yield 'pack them in cheap' approach, but, its a risky move for what used to be a charter only carrier against 3 different hub carriers.

DL MAN-JFK will be just fine. Its being sold across the Delta and Virgin platforms, and Delta is pushing VS to use MAN in a bigger way, so, should be fine.

AA on BHX-JFK, well, no offence to BHX, but, its going to be a watch and see. As noted, oneworld doesn't seem to have the commitment at BHX, and 2 daily to the USA at BHX has always been tricky, so, will be interesting to see if history repeats, or, if the extra frequency can finally pay off. I would like to think BHX can sustain 2 daily, however.

Do you have any more info on AA starting BHX. If they were to come back to BHX, for flights starting in May/June 2015, when would be the latest you would think they would confirm ?????

 

[dazzler]

NCL's new route gets pushed on social media, local and national press and even Stateside.

I'm impressed with the NCL website overhaul. Loud and Proud.

The locals are chuffed that they don't have to schlep to Edinburgh or Manchester and some of comments are very supportive.

Couldn't we market our Transatlantic route better ? I have always thought so.

 

[BHXsupporter]

Re: United Airlines (Postby Brum X Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:08 pm

How can BHX ever escape the long-standing current impasse if such a view were taken by BHX?

Viewed from afar, BHX has decided its strategy to present more regional services for its region. Much needed, jolly good, and supported by long-delayed infrastructure. Surely the only way to move the current market (and frankly culture) is to present alternative routes since without these how can there ever be a change?

And what are they trying to change? ... the ludicrous road traffic from far places to head to Heathrow or elsewhere. This popular strategy - highlighted on many air websites - seems to be undertaken even when there are direct regional or local alternatives mainly to save a measly few pounds which probably wouldn't fund much, but even if it does, the competitive advantage to an individual exists solely artificially reflecting years of incremental market building and protection of the major airports.

One huge issue in favour of LHR is the lack of any immediate payment tariff for road use to get to these far-away airports (a minute % use public transport). 'Please come here anytime, any day' is the charm dangled before potential passengers yet the frustration, air pollution and ill-health resulting is there for anyone venturing towards the M4 corridor to see. Use of LGW from pastures north of this axis is even more baffling to me but the punters really do accept the carrots offered and seem unmoved by the downsides to themselves and the areas they accept to drive through.

Against this mighty and clever financial/political position BHX can only change the status quo by doing what needs to be done to implement a change in strategy - motivate supporters with the spirit and energy to take the chance, start new services based on good research and subsidize the service through these important partnerships. Surely this must involve B'ham and the West Midlands institutions as a whole to cough up some funds, support enthusiastically, construct excellent marketing and move forwards. If BHX hasn't ensured such supporting groups then had I been a BHX Board Member, remembering that my primary responsibility was to provide regular dividend to my shareholders and 'sod the customer needs', I would probably never have voted for the extended runway, control tower etc. and simply accepted the status quo of 'We're doing ok aren't we?' and 'It's too difficult to change'.

Taking strategic decisions without an implementation plan is far worse than doing nothing. Let us see but some folk, somewhere within BHX have decided to plant acorns - for the better mature oak forest hopefully.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Couldn't we market our Transatlantic route better ? I have always thought so.

I still speak to people who don't know you can fly direct to New York from Birmingham :s_no

Taking strategic decisions without an implementation plan is far worse than doing nothing. Let us see but some folk, somewhere within BHX have decided to plant acorns - for the better mature oak forest hopefully.

I too get the feeling that somewhere there is a long term vision and I think once the government get it's act together and comes up with concrete plans for the future of air travel in the UK (and the South East) we'll see more about where that vision is heading.

Lets hope though that they haven't taken their eyes off the short term, there are still some gaps in the Euro network that need plugging sooner rather than later and a couple more long haul routes which BHX could do with being added along with more capacity on others.

I recall watching a BBC breakfast programme a few months back where it claimed US travel companies are now pushing Birmingham as a must see destination. It said American tourists were being told "forget London, head to middle England to Birmingham where it's all happening". Did anybody else recall seeing the programme?

I didn't see the programme but the Greater Birmingham region seems to have gotten some good press in the US over the last couple of years with the New York Times being particularly complimentary running several articles about visiting Birmingham, with one article focusing on the cities transformation into a 'culinary hotspot'.

With Stratford-Upon-Avon being so popular to American visitors I've long thought that BHX could do more to promote it's proximity to Shakespeare's birthplace. It seems to feature heavily when BHX do it's publicity around China so why not take the same approach in the US, making people aware they can do a trip into the region rather than just a day out from London?

 

[Brum X]

Now i wonder if United is going to give us a couple of surprises for Summer 2015, a one off 787 dreamliner from EWR would be nice on the start date for AA ????????

With a couple of 767s during July and August. :good: :good:

 

[andyc941]

Hi all i dont want to be a party pooper but it great news AA starting. I am a great BHX supporter but think few are thinking off there dreams.I would love all One World tails to be seen at BHX. But one step at a time what will start scheduled services at BHX. But i think more announcements are due soon from Paul Kehoe

 

[Brum X]

Hi all i dont want to be a party pooper but it great news AA starting. I am a great BHX supporter but think few are thinking of their dreams.I would love all One World tails to be seen at BHX. But one step at a time what will start scheduled services at BHX. But i think more announcements are due soon from Paul Kehoe

I know what you mean mate, im just a bit like a kid when stuff like this happens, it gets me excited.
Im already thinking of buying an American Airlines 757 for my FSX, so i can cruise across the atlantic next year into BHX, but not until May Next year though, its all about Realism. I could fly into MAN though i suppose, tut tut

 

[thunderchild]

United Airlines have announced plans to re-furbish and re-configure 21 (originally 11) 767-300s to replace the 757's on transatlantic routes - Newark to Berlin and Barcelona will be the first routes upgraded followed by Madrid and Hamburg. It will be interesting to see what will happen to BHX.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I guess they could do it in retaliation towards AA putting a much sought after wide body on the route. I think the 763's have 10 more Business Class seats than the 757?

I wonder what the cargo demand is like between BHX and New York/USA. Would there be enough to fill a 763? Maybe CL44 has some thoughts?