Hainan Airlines

[Dobbo]

When CX go daily in June, they will still be full MAN terminator flights.

What I suppose I am getting at is, do you think CX might consider a DUB tag if MAN is to ever get more than daily flights? The aircraft is idle for a long period of time, and it might also be quite handy to DUB if EI join OW...

 

[ethanegcc]

I thought this but, one stop flights are not any good for connections. For example if a OW customer wanted to go from DUB-SIN, for example, CX wouldn't be attractive as you would have to go DUB-MAN-HKG-SIN, whereas going DUB-LHR-SIN would be much better. They may well consider it, but to be honest, the best option is an EI 332 direct as I am sure it has the range or a CX 359 on something like a three weekly basis. The problem that arises also with eastbound flights into DUB is that there is no where to connect to without backtracking. This is why tatl flights do so well out of DUB as one could go BOS-DUB-AMS and it be extremely efficient whereas flying from Hong Kong to, lets say Nice (I know it is a very small market) you would have to backtrack quite significantly, and, again for one world travellers HKG-HEL-NCE or HKG-LHR-NCE would be much better.

Will the daily service be 359 or 77W User?

 

[Scottie Dog]

Hainan continue to Dublin 4 days per week if all goes to plan.

 

[ethanegcc]

This is great news. Any idea when the announcement will be? January?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

It is premature to presume that good news from Hainan is assured. It is not unusual for carriers to reserve advance slots speculatively to cover their options. A new service may result as indicated, but equally it is not unusual for slots to be handed back. Note the recent example which saw FlyBe hold sufficient slots to increase MAN services by 66%; in reality they were just reshuffling their slot portfolio and the bulk of the surplus has been handed back. Another common scenario sees airlines reserving slots for (say) a new route to four different destination airports with the intention of retaining one set and returning the other three sets when their final deployment decision is made. So a slot application for a new route is best viewed as an expression of interest only.

In Hainan's case there is no harm in hoping for good news. But if we presume good news too early we set ourselves up for potential disappointment.

 

[Dobbo]

Sounds like the DUB tag may begin as early as March 26th.

No idea if that is a one-off or permanent from that date. Also don't know if the daily frequency begins at that time.

 

[ethanegcc]

Any source?

 

[Dobbo]

Yes, but not an official source, or one that can be cited.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Sunday March 26th 2017 is the first day of British Summer Time (BST). As such it is also the start of summer schedules for slot-application purposes and is the season changeover date used by ACL. So there are two possibilities here: Hainan Airlines has applied for these slots for the whole of the summer season pending a decision on selecting an actual date for their changes (if they proceed with implementing them), or they actually do plan to implement changes from the start of season itself.

Many airlines do implement their main schedule changes on this particular weekend. But it also isn't unusual to see carriers booking slots for a full season but then launching services on some interim date beyond that. It will be interesting to see what CHH do in reality. I'd certainly welcome the chance to see afew of their flights land at MAN in full daylight!

 

[Scottie Dog]

As EGCC_MAN has said summer schedules are from the last weekend in March to the last weekend of October - in other words timed to coincide with our clock changes (aren't we lucky to have something to remind of the dates).

Hainan had applied for daily slots for the summer with an extension to Dublin on four days. As yet I have not seen this having been confirmed on their schedules but we still have just over 11 weeks to go.

 

[ethanegcc]

Yes I realise this is a major weekend for changes and the beginning of most airline's summer schedules but I thought it may be some time around June like Cathay Pacific.

Although you can see their aircraft land in daylight (in summer) it demands a 5am wakeup (depending on where you live) 😉

I would love to fly to Dublin with them, however.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

I would love to fly to Dublin with them, however.

Likewise. Clearly it is odds against them obtaining traffic rights to carry MAN-DUB passengers. But given that the Irish must be very keen to lure a Beijing service and that an increase at MAN benefits the UK, there may be just a glimmer of hope that local traffic rights could be conceded as a sweetener. Such a limited offering shouldn't represent any serious threat to Aer Lingus or Ryanair on DUB-MAN. Maybe worth keeping fingers crossed?

I guess that there would have to be a condition that all arriving passengers would have to go through full passport checks though (not required at MAN for EIN/RYR arrivals). Whether this would block things or not I couldn't say.

 

[Dobbo]

Bad news: it seems HU have ditched the DUB tag.

Good news: it seems they have retained slots for daily PEK-MAN.

 

[ethanegcc]

The big question is: will it happen? Just seasonally would be good. The loads in summer were extremely impressive - in winter not warranting lots of expansion. I wish we would have an official announcement!

 

[Land23R]

Bad news: it seems HU have ditched the DUB tag.

Good news: it seems they have retained slots for daily PEK-MAN.

Have we any update on this? We are almost the end of February and summer schedules start Sunday 26 March.
From comments previously, it would seem MAN did well last summer from inbound tourist groups, - a key to the route being successful I would have thought. Surely those tour organisers / travel agents in China need to know the frequency of flights and whether or not they are also serving DUB.

Or, despite the various rumours and expectations, and comments about slots, is it the status quo for MAN - 4 x weekly with all flights terminating here?

I

 

[ethanegcc]

It could even go daily between May and October, if that was the peak period, but I fear it is the same as Cathay - all the speculation may amount to nothing or just a small increase. I do continue to hope but time is running out.

 

[Dobbo]

I'll see what I can find out and let you know. From recollection the intention was to introduce any increase from June - there is time yet for the anticipated increase.

It would be disappointing if there was no increase, but not a disaster!

 

[Dobbo]

To clarify my final point:

Before December 2014 there were no direct and nonstop flights from MAN to the Far East. By June we will have 14 weekly:

• 5 with SQ
• 5 with CX
• 4 with HU (at least).

This is pretty rapid growth and whilst we all want to see the above go daily the growth has to be sustainable and this is a delegate economic time for airlines and the UK economy.

Add to that the prospect of TG and CA looking at BKK and PVG, the prospect of going from zero weekly flight to the Far East to possibly 35 in a few years would be remarkable growth.

 

[ethanegcc]

I'll see what I can find out and let you know. From recollection the intention was to introduce any increase from June - there is time yet for the anticipated increase.

It would be disappointing if there was no increase, but not a disaster!

Great, thank you. And I completely understand your last point but the word 'daily' and 'Beijing' together just work! 😉

 

[Dobbo]

Personally I think "Daily" goes well with Singapore, Hong Kong, LA, San Fran and many others!

It looks like there are a couple of things to keep an eye on with HU:

• Firstly, daily remains in the frame, but no start date yet. The ACL report indicated daily but no start date (it was CX who indicated daily from 1 June). Aside from DUB being dropped, nothing has changed on this.
• Secondly, it sounds like the B789 will be introduced from the end of March.