Manchester: Virgin Atlantic Route News & Base Updates

[Aviador]

Manchester seems to be working well for Virgin and their partnership with Delta has seen Virgin profits saw recently so I guess it's a natural progression for the airline to look at more routes from the airport.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/virgin-atlantic-profit-rises-on-lower-fuel-costs-delta-tie-up-1458730913

 

[Dobbo]

No particular report on manchester...

I think the Delta tie up is really helping the Atlanta route - which I think User001 has commented on in the past.

Thinking about the next logical steps, it is difficult to see where they could turn without facing competition in accordance with their strategy (I.e. the USA).

Places like Boston, LA, San Fran are covered or soon to be covered by TCX JFK is covered by Delta amongst others as are chicago and Washington. My suspicion is that they were eyeing up the west coast destinations but have been beaten to the punch by TCX.

 

[Land23R]

No particular report on manchester...

I think the Delta tie up is really helping the Atlanta route - which I think User001 has commented on in the past.

Thinking about the next logical steps, it is difficult to see where they could turn without facing competition in accordance with their strategy (I.e. the USA).

Places like Boston, LA, San Fran are covered or soon to be covered by TCX JFK is covered by Delta amongst others as are chicago and Washington. My suspicion is that they were eyeing up the west coast destinations but have been beaten to the punch by TCX.

You could well be right about the West Coast of the US. I may be wrong but I would have thought both LAX and SFO could justify 4 x weekly. Whether the demand for LAX this year on 2 x weekly will tempt TCX to up frequency next year remains to be seen (hasn't 3 x weekly been mentioned?), and aren't we awaiting confirmation of SFO in 2017?

As far as DL/VS are concerned, I still feel Detroit is a possibility for DL but any expansion by VS could be more to the Caribbean or maybe Mexico. There's been talk/rumour of real expansion by VS from time to time going back 10 years or more, but they seem to have focused mainly on increasing capacity on their existing MCO route to some extent, while hasn't LAS become year round?

 

[Dobbo]

I think TCX have strongly indicated that LAX will be year round (increasing to 3x weekly in S17) and that SFO will start at 2x weekly in S17. The document has I think since been removed from their website and it may have been a ruse to try and stop the competition from moving in. I think LAS is still seasonal from MAN.

I think VS/DL have a real opportunity to develop a strong transatlantic offering from MAN to the various DL hubs (following the ATL model).

In summary: there is more to this than the beach fleet!

 

[User001]

Virgin Atlantic have just announced 3 weekly San Fransisco and 2 weekly Boston from Manchester. Maybe why Thomas Cook shelved the San Fran plan?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/47e4d23a-f5bc-11e5-803c-d27c7117d132.html#axzz44JmiPxdK

 

[Land23R]

Well that's put the cat among the pigeons. Personally, I would prefer LAX and SFO to be served by one airline.
I know that with more DIY holidays and booking one-way fares, there is still the opportunity of a California trip arriving at one airport and departing the other. But for package holidays, tour operators and travel agents, a single airline is surely preferable (unless you are prepared to do one way via LHR). What the demand is for dual airport tour holidays, I don't know.

Having said that, I'm personally pleased to see Virgin taking the initiative. It will be interesting to see what happens with Boston now. I assume existing flights to MCO, LAS and ATL continue as at present.

 

[User001]

And BGI

All in all, that makes JFK/ATL/LAS/MCO/SFO/BOS and BGI direct with Virgin/Delta.

Hearing that Delta are going to do DTW next year too.

Impressive stuff.

 

[Brum X]

Pretty impressive stuff from Delta/Virgin at MAN

SFO is really a great route to have served by an airline like Virgin Atlantic 🙂

 

[David_itl]

Travel Trade Gazette has this article:
https://www.ttgmedia.com//news/news/virgin-strikes-deal-with-flybe-for-more-regional-flights--4034

Confirms both routes as summer only. Virgin to codeshare with Flybe and the 1st time I've seen reported anywhere: "It mirrors Flybe’s partnership with Thomas Cook Airlines at Manchester, where the regional carrier accounts for 10-15% of passengers on Cook’s US flights. "

 

[User001]

Virgin have clearly gone for the jugular against TCX, as the route duplication is clear for all to see.

One wonders whether Virgin are pre emptying Norwegian too. SFO/JFK/BOS seem to be the 3 strongest Norwegian rumours, and, after seeing what Norwegian have done at LGW, it's likely Virgin have thought 'nope, not this time'.

 

[David_itl]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...nchester-direct-flight-san-francisco-11110054
Evening News on it as well. With this extra bit: "It’s also increasing flights to Barbados,"

 

[User001]

Summer 2017 as told by my friend who told me about SFO/BOS a few weeks ago (gutted I didn't believe him)

MCO full 14 weekly B747-400
BGI 2 weekly A330
LAS 4 weekly A330
SFO 3 weekly A330
BOS 3 weekly A330
ATL 7 weekly A330

5 based aircraft (2 B744/ 3 A333)

 

[Land23R]

BOS 3 weekly A330

Interestingly, as per your list User, the M.E.N. also has BOS at 3 x weekly, but I thought the FT stated 2 x weekly.

Ken O'Toole has stressed the business links with SFO so I wonder if it could support year-round flights.
Business wants frequency though, and while 3 a week in summer should certainly be viable, Nov-Mar would be a challenge.

 

[Dobbo]

I am obviously very perceptive it seems...

 

[Dobbo]

Virgin have clearly gone for the jugular against TCX, as the route duplication is clear for all to see.

One wonders whether Virgin are pre emptying Norwegian too. SFO/JFK/BOS seem to be the 3 strongest Norwegian rumours, and, after seeing what Norwegian have done at LGW, it's likely Virgin have thought 'nope, not this time'.

I think that is likely. TCX are clearly doing well at MAN and are hoovering up what I imagine VS view as "their" customers on "their" turf. Id like to see this remain over the winter and I really hope the Flybe connection works.

In the meantime, as well as DTW it would not be a shock to see the likes of MIA and LAX appear on the VS radar soon.

As the consumer, we can only hope that it elicits a response from TCX. With the benefit of hindsight, TCX releasing a tentative schedule for SFO now looks like an attempt to scare off VS. Whether they will now follow through with it remains in question. Perhaps they will focus on LAX?

 

[Land23R]

Not for the first time, and certainly not for the last, I've been proved wrong. I thought VS, even with the DL link would need a lot of convincing to go West Coast from MAN non-stop, especially as TCX were committed to LAX and with their own feed from ATL or LAS.

Dobbo, you may also have been right when you mentioned feed from SFO (and LAX for that matter). Seattle for example is 800 miles north from San Francisco - a 2 hour flight - and I see DL has 7 daily flights between the two cities. Some big company names in Seattle as you know. The timings given on another forum for the VS SFO flights are:
1120 MAN-SFO 1440
1705 SFO-MAN 1140+1

That arrival in SFO at 14.40 has a connection at 17.30 to SEA with 2 later flights if the connection is missed.
And the 17.05 departure from SFO on the return should not be a problem either. There are other options for getting to SEA now of course but this SFO flight will be a useful addition from that perspective.

As for DL, I did feel that Detroit was a more likely direct route from MAN than SEA, so if it does start next year as User001 has suggested, at least I won't have got that wrong!

 

[David_itl]

Routesonline has done a piece on VS and MAN
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29...oosts-transatlantic-offering-from-manchester/

Only quibble being this bit: "The brand new link to San Francisco and Manchester’s first regular link to Boston since American Airlines ended its service in October 2007, are further evidence of this strategy.". Sorry Thomas Cook, you've been overlooked!

also gives the ramp up on capacity:

"Data from intelligence provider, OAG, shows that Virgin Atlantic has already more than doubled its international offering from Manchester since the start of this decade and this year will offer more than 750,000 international seats in and out of Manchester, up 11.0 percent on last year, based on published flight schedules. This followed a growth of 29.2 percent in 2015 thanks primarily to the introduction of the new Atlanta service but also extra capacity into Las Vegas and Orlando.

With a full year of operation capacity between Manchester and Atlanta will be up 31.2 percent this year, while available seats between Manchester and Las Vegas will also rise 12.8 percent, to Barbados by 5.6 percent and to Orlando by 4.6 percent."

 

[Dobbo]

Not for the first time, and certainly not for the last, I've been proved wrong. I thought VS, even with the DL link would need a lot of convincing to go West Coast from MAN non-stop, especially as TCX were committed to LAX and with their own feed from ATL or LAS.

Dobbo, you may also have been right when you mentioned feed from SFO (and LAX for that matter). Seattle for example is 800 miles north from San Francisco - a 2 hour flight - and I see DL has 7 daily flights between the two cities. Some big company names in Seattle as you know. The timings given on another forum for the VS SFO flights are:
1120 MAN-SFO 1440
1705 SFO-MAN 1140+1

That arrival in SFO at 14.40 has a connection at 17.30 to SEA with 2 later flights if the connection is missed.
And the 17.05 departure from SFO on the return should not be a problem either. There are other options for getting to SEA now of course but this SFO flight will be a useful addition from that perspective.

As for DL, I did feel that Detroit was a more likely direct route from MAN than SEA, so if it does start next year as User001 has suggested, at least I won't have got that wrong!

If you say things often enough they come true!!

Seriously, I was a little surprised that VS served LAS and not at least one of SFO or LAX. It seemed to be the wrong way round! Then with TCX quietly leaking SFO and pulling it, it seemed a little odd.

I'd like to see TCX and VS offer some competition and choice to LAX and SFO but let's see how it goes.

The USA is really one of the few areas where the BA model of the heathrow shuttle works well from MAN. For most places heading east it does not work anymore. MAN has shown that when the supply of seats and a good product is provided the demand is there. I think 3x weekly and seasonal is not there yet, and I'd like to see this and some other newish routes beefed up to 4+ weekly.

 

[Land23R]

Only quibble being this bit: "The brand new link to San Francisco and Manchester’s first regular link to Boston since American Airlines ended its service in October 2007, are further evidence of this strategy.". Sorry Thomas Cook, you've been overlooked!

I don't know if Routes have amended the article David but it now reads as:
"The brand new link to San Francisco and Manchester’s first regular business service to Boston since American Airlines ended its service in October 2007, are further evidence of this strategy (Thomas Cook Airlines is also now serving the Boston market from Manchester but mainly targeting leisure demand)".

 

[David_itl]

They have definitely amended it - someone may have reminded them (not me!) or they just looked at their past articles relating to Thomas Cook US operations.