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Brum X

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And Orlando will be back to daily soon as well....

...cannot see the economics of NYC. Too much capacity on the route from Birmingahm's other two airports south of Manchester and west of London. As long as Brummies continue to make the tracks north and south and support those flights, then the airlines will continue to only serve those routes and not care where in the UK passengers come from as long as they travel though MAN and LHR. We don't stand a chance. Hate to be negative but I cannot see a return any time soon.

Happy to be proven wrong...again (I backed Primera to be huge....ooops)
However Ian as there are currently no flights from BHX to New York Direct what are Brummies supposed to do ?? :unsure:
 

Jerry

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But some people want to fly direct for what ever reasons and they cant fly from BHX.

And with the highest respect Jerry, going backwards on yourself to AMS would be rather strange to most people.
what's the difference between going to Amsterdam and Heathrow or Manchester?
 

rutamkrd

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The engine issues have nothing to do with it; More rather the archaic seating capacity limits within the bilaterals AND a sudden realisation that deploying a narrow body with an intermediate stop would be burning wedges of money, when competing with Air India Jet and BA none stop UK flights oh and the heavy weights in the sandpit.
 

Brum X

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what's the difference between going to Amsterdam and Heathrow or Manchester?
Id do it Jerry as im a plane geek and the thought of going via AMS excites me, that wont be the feeling of lots of people and the thought of having to change planes is not an inviting prospect. Some people would prefer to fly direct and they can only fly direct from London/Manchester in England.
 

rutamkrd

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Brumx - KLM have been active in taking UK passengers back and forth over the Atlantic since the 1960s . They have extensive knowledge and presence in this market space.
Even during the heady days of UK- Canadian VFR travel in the seventies they were the third biggest scheduled player with their cooperation with CP-Air via Amsterdam.
 

Brum X

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Brumx - KLM have been active in taking UK passengers back and forth over the Atlantic since the 1960s . They have extensive knowledge and presence in this market space.
Even during the heady days of UK- Canadian VFR travel in the seventies they were the third biggest scheduled player with their cooperation with CP-Air via Amsterdam.
I am well aware of that rutamkrd but that still doesnt mean that every Brummie wanting to fly to New York wants to do it that way or go with Aer Lingus (Another airline who have extensive knowledge in this market place). Many people would prefer to fly direct from MAN and stay on one aircraft especially if you are a family with young children.
 

rutamkrd

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Personally those who were discussing Philadelphia over JFK are on to something imho.
Philadelphia would support substantial cargo up lift and has a substantial bio science O&D market ideal for marketing in Oxford , Milton Keynes and even as far Cambridge for Birmingham.
It’s now AMERICANs primary north east seaboard hub with easy onward connections down to Florida and west to Detroit and the Windy City both markets Birmingham craves.

Frankly JFK has pretty poor onward connection opportunities these days . It’s primarily an O&D market and I am afraid those thirty plus dailies at the end of the 40 operating largely to support the banking isurrance and stock market gamblers and their desires to cross the altlantic at a minutes notice any time of the day, has resulted in enormous over capacity in the back of the bus so to speak and lead to extensive price dumping via the consolidators, damaging the viability of regional flights across a swave of the UK and near continent.

Manchester has survived on Uniteds Newark hub and connections whilst the JFK route is in the hands of Virgin (Delta UK) supported by Virgin Holiday short breaks and Thomas Cook again pretty much a holiday charter in many ways.
 

mullion

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United to Manchester is actually doing very well with plenty of J class hence the upgrade to B767
Thomas Cook out performed American on JFK on service levels whereas Virgin are picking up large ammounts of
connections off Jet Airways on both JFK and ATL
 

Jerry

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Whichever way you go, you're playing into the hands of one alliance or another. They are getting you aboard their aircraft without having to operate a direct service from BHX.

Kevin
True but at least when using those services from BHX people are using BHX.

Many people would prefer to fly direct from MAN and stay on one aircraft especially if you are a family with young children.
I think with MAN it's more to do with who people are booking with than a direct service but I also think with some passengers there is a mentality that you can only fly long haul from the 'big' airports.
From my point of view flying to AMS first is no different than driving down the M4 or in this case up or down the M6 and I came to that conclusion before I was an avgeek and I also think its generally made my journeys to the US a lot less stressful flying locally than going to the big airports.
 

Ianbutty

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I keep coming back to geography. Hate to say it. If you are camped.out in Major US Airline HQ in a route development meeting with a map of the world on the wall and pins showing existing European routes served, you are unlikely to choose another airport wedged in between the two and close to the two (in US terms very close). Greater Birmingham to US passengers seem to be coping with having no links. The airlines have increased bums of seats at MAN and LHR to pretty decent numbers because of the custimers, so what do the airlines care if the UK second city is not served. Brummies make good money for them at MAN and LHR and probably at the former turn their revenue into profit.

Maybe someone will come in but it is a sorry state and I wish it was not so. Brum has to look elsewhere and look east.
 

TheLocalYokel

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In peripheral areas of the country - the South West for example - people are always likely to have to travel to a distant 'big' airport for direct long haul travel. As Jerry has mentioned, sometimes there is the opportunity to use a local airport and fly via a hub such as AMS for long haul, but either way there can be an hour or two spent, sometimes longer, getting to the direct flight departure airport whether by road, rail or by air on a 'feeder' flight to a hub.

I can understand the frustration of some people living in a large and densely populated area such as the West Midlands if their local direct long haul options are limited, but people living in the peripheral areas of the country can be equally frustrated knowing they are never likely to have much of an option for local direct long haul travel.

Perhaps the difference is in expectation. In the South West we know that a reasonable long haul network almost certainly will never be feasible, whereas in the Birmingham area there has been a decent spread of long haul options in the past (I know there are still some going east) and there must always be a realistic hope that the routes to the west will return at some point.
 
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True but at least when using those services from BHX people are using BHX.


I think with MAN it's more to do with who people are booking with than a direct service but I also think with some passengers there is a mentality that you can only fly long haul from the 'big' airports.
From my point of view flying to AMS first is no different than driving down the M4 or in this case up or down the M6 and I came to that conclusion before I was an avgeek and I also think its generally made my journeys to the US a lot less stressful flying locally than going to the big airports.
I was talking to some Canadian friends last week who have lived in Birmingham for twenty years and travelled to Goa at Christmas from MAN. They are gong to Goa again at half-term and they discovered from someone that they could fly from BHX and that is what they are doing. I don't know who my friends booked with at Christmas, but it sounds like they were never given the choice of BHX because they said they would have taken it, whatever. It is a common tale I hear from people who are not travel savvy.
 

mullion

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I`m sorry but this may upset a few but Manchester business is growing twice as fast as anywhere in UK
and is showing no signs of it slowing down, many of the companies arriving are US tech companies
with over 2.25m sq feet of office in Central and south Manchester last year and nearly 150,000s ft in the 1st month of 2019, Airport City is not included in these figures, this is what is causing the increase in business traffic on long haul not so much of pulling people from other cities as more are likely to head for LHR
with the vast selection of flights and times for the likes of Birmingham/east midlands etc
 

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