Primera Air

[Paulsstrange]

The interesting thing is they state sales are strong so far.. ..lets hope this includes BHX?

 

[Ray Finkle]

So possibly some wide bodied aircraft on the horizon for them in the future.

I guess it depends on what range they can get out of the A321LR and whether they will order any more. I've not seen anything official but the figure 7,400 km seems to be out there. Birmingham to Delhi is 6,800 km with Amritsar 6,400 km. With other considerations needing to be taken into account I have no idea if they would be feasible? Dubai is 5,600 km so well within range I would have thought.

Who knows for the future though. If this long haul works they may look at going even further or adding higher volume markets such as Orlando for which wide bodies would be needed.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I forgot to add that the article states both Dulles and Baltimore are being considered for a potential Washington route. From the UK I suppose both would make more sense than Montreal which may be better suited to Paris.

W18/19 is going on sale early next year so it will be interesting to see their North American schedules. Hopefully we'll keep a short haul operation throughout the winter months, maybe swapping Palma for the Canaries?

 

[IanFarquharson]

Looking promising and hopefully become very successful at BHX
Exactly what we need.

 

[Coathanger16]

I guess it depends on what range they can get out of the A321LR and whether they will order any more. I've not seen anything official but the figure 7,400 km seems to be out there. Birmingham to Delhi is 6,800 km with Amritsar 6,400 km. With other considerations needing to be taken into account I have no idea if they would be feasible? Dubai is 5,600 km so well within range I would have thought.

Who knows for the future though. If this long haul works they may look at going even further or adding higher volume markets such as Orlando for which wide bodies would be needed.

Considering FlyDubai use the 737-800 to fly from Dubai to Prague (4670km, 737-800 range 5440km), I would think an A321LR with a range of 7400km could be used on routes up to 6400km:

BHX - DXB: 5611km
BHX - ORD: 6334km
BHX - ATQ: 6400km

Wide body would also likely be needed if they ever decided to go for West Coast of America/Canada.

 

[Ianbutty]

Baltimore would be a wiser choice as it can pick up the Philadelphia market as well as Baltimore and Washington.

Promising.

 

[Creguk]

It's definitely an exciting time for Primera. Like others have said, I'd like to see them walk before they run. As a BHX enthusiast, I feel constant trepidation with new start ups. I have just looked at Newark over the late May Bank Holiday and their prices are very reasonable. £360 return Sat to Wed. If prices like this continue, hats off to them.

 

[Ray Finkle]

As a BHX enthusiast, I feel constant trepidation with new start ups.

I think we've had that ingrained into us with so many years of highs and lows

There looks to be so much riding on Primera now it just has to work. I shudder to think what happens if it doesn't

 

[Ianbutty]

I think we've had that ingrained into us with so many years of highs and lows

There looks to be so much riding on Primera now it just has to work. I shudder to think what happens if it doesn't

For those who are bluenoses we have this natural tendency to think the worst whilst remaining wildly optimistic.

 

[Coathanger16]

Baltimore would be a wiser choice as it can pick up the Philadelphia market as well as Baltimore and Washington.

Promising.

I've often seen people say about using Baltimore for Philadelphia as well. A quick look at google maps says driving times are slightly quicker from Newark (BWI 1:56, EWR 1:34).

Either way, BWI would probably be a better option than Dulles - good access to Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia.

Like others have said, I'd like to see them walk before they run.

Fully agree with that sentiment. I do believe these routes were mentioned as potentially for 2019, so should give some time for the currently announced routes to bed in.

 

[Brummiegem]

I think it has been said before.I think Primera Air could be last chance saloon for BHX and it’s US aspirations.
If successful it may resurrect interest from other bigger airlines.If not then links to the US could become a thing of the past.
Geographically we are in the wrong place.Someone suggested we are getting squeezed by airports just an hour away by road.I would agree with that.
I wish Primera well. They are going to need all the luck in the world in very tricky trading conditions.

 

[hammerb32]

I've often seen people say about using Baltimore for Philadelphia as well. A quick look at google maps says driving times are slightly quicker from Newark (BWI 1:56, EWR 1:34).

Either way, BWI would probably be a better option than Dulles - good access to Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia.



Fully agree with that sentiment. I do believe these routes were mentioned as potentially for 2019, so should give some time for the currently announced routes to bed in.

Amtrak stops at BWI which makes it very useful for Washington or Philly and of course Baltimore which is a great city in its own right. Train takes about 20 minutes from BWI to Washington, the metro/bus alternate from Dulles is well over an hour.

 

[flymetothemoon]

For those who are bluenoses we have this natural tendency to think the worst whilst remaining wildly optimistic.

And from all us Villa fans well I'm afraid we all fear the worst too-believe me!

 

[Ray Finkle]

 

[Ray Finkle]

 

[airport66]

Just reading these's post over the last few weeks, I'm getting the impression people might be putting a little to much hope in primera, since United stopped flying to newark this year. As a passenger who has used united in the past, and this is just a "personal opinion", Primera new newark service will not be a replacement for united airlines service to newark. I say this for three reasons, first it is a unfamiliar airline to the public, Secondly from what i can see Primera won't offer the same on board service that United did, since primera is a low cost airline and thirdly United offered hundreds of onward connections with in the United states and beyond, Primera will not offer onward connections. On saying that though, it will offer 3 destinations which includes Toronto. Toronto was served only weekly by air transat, where as primera is planning to fly 3 times a week.
I get the impression that people are thinking that primera is the last chance for birmingham and transatlantic flights. REALLY!! While I'm not a an expert these matters, i think people are missing if i may say so the "Elephant in the room" as regards to birmingham and transatlantic flights. While birmingham doesn't have the best record for these services, non the less it does seem to have a some kind of proven market. Even though united gave up the route this october, stating that the service was not economically viable for them to fly it anymore, does not mean to say there isn't a market. No airline or carrier for that matter is going to fly a route for 20 years if there is no demand/ not financially viable. From what i can see the birmingham to newark route survived 9/11 and the financial crisis of 2008.
In conclusion i think birmingham needs a replacement for the lost united service. Will primera be that airline to do so?? i think the jury are still out on that one. Hope they succeed, will give them a try myself.

On a side note Jet Blue from what i understand are planning transatlantic flights I'm sure i read somewhere on this forum that a representative was touring uk airports which included birmingham. They have a big base at JFK and their inflight service is very good. Possible replacement for united's newark service?? only time will tell.

 

[Coathanger16]

Just reading these's post over the last few weeks, I'm getting the impression people might be putting a little to much hope in primera, since United stopped flying to newark this year. As a passenger who has used united in the past, and this is just a "personal opinion", Primera new newark service will not be a replacement for united airlines service to newark. I say this for three reasons, first it is a unfamiliar airline to the public, Secondly from what i can see Primera won't offer the same on board service that United did, since primera is a low cost airline and thirdly United offered hundreds of onward connections with in the United states and beyond, Primera will not offer onward connections. On saying that though, it will offer 3 destinations which includes Toronto. Toronto was served only weekly by air transat, where as primera is planning to fly 3 times a week.

Interesting post raising a number of good points, and good to hear from someone who actually used the United service.

In response to your first three points:

Yes Primera is an unfamiliar airline, but so was Norwegian once. I've heard stories on here of people telling their friends and relatives they were flying to Spain, and when they mentioned Norwegian their F&R said "I thought you were going to Spain not Norway"! Yes Norwegian built up a short haul presence before going long haul, but you also have airlines such as LEVEL that are completely new and unknown to the public starting long haul flights.

On board service - looking at flights in July 2018:

LHR - EWR (United): £627
MAN - EWR (United): £630
EDI - EWR (United): £659
GLA - EWR (United): £626
BHX - EWR (Primera 'Light'): £537
BHX - EWR (Primera 'Comfort'): £638 (on average £2.50 more than United's flights from other UK airports)

Primera 'Light' is a basic fare including just hand baggage.
Primera 'Comfort' includes hand baggage, checked baggage, a meal, and seat reservation.

Not sure how United's fare compared at BHX, but I think Primera can offer a somewhat similar level of service. For the relatively short flight to the US East Coast, what else besides checked baggage, a seat and a meal do people want? IFE, more people these days are using their own devices.

Your third point about onwards connections is the problem however. Primera doesn't have a network from Newark, and I can't really see them code sharing with anyone that does. From when you flew United (or if anyone else knows for that matter), do you know how many people had New York as their destination and how many were transferring onto another destination? Even then, New York and Toronto are the main N.American destinations from BHX and Primera will be serving them directly. Other US destinations can be accessed via Dublin with Aer Lingus. The question in that case is "is there sufficient O&D demand for a BHX - NYC route?".

I get the impression that people are thinking that primera is the last chance for birmingham and transatlantic flights. REALLY!! While I'm not a an expert these matters, i think people are missing if i may say so the "Elephant in the room" as regards to birmingham and transatlantic flights. While birmingham doesn't have the best record for these services, non the less it does seem to have a some kind of proven market. Even though united gave up the route this october, stating that the service was not economically viable for them to fly it anymore, does not mean to say there isn't a market. No airline or carrier for that matter is going to fly a route for 20 years if there is no demand/ not financially viable. From what i can see the birmingham to newark route survived 9/11 and the financial crisis of 2008.
In conclusion i think birmingham needs a replacement for the lost united service. Will primera be that airline to do so?? i think the jury are still out on that one. Hope they succeed, will give them a try myself.

Whilst yes that is all true, if Primera 'fail' & pull out of BHX, that would be 3 airlines (Primera, United & American) all quitting the BHX - NYC/USA market within a few years of each other. That's 2 full service carriers and a low cost carrier who found it uneconomical for them - I can't personally see any other airlines going near BHX for TATL if that happens. Whilst JetBlue offer a comprehensive network from JFK (and I'd love to see them even consider BHX), with the aircraft they have they're unlikely to fly to anywhere else (perhaps Boston). Whether or not that's an issue comes down to whether or not there is sufficient demand to fly from BHX/West Midlands to multiple US cities.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Welcome to the forum, great first post with some good points.

I'm getting the impression people might be putting a little to much hope in primera

It is a worry but I'm not sure that we have a choice?

I get the impression that people are thinking that primera is the last chance for birmingham and transatlantic flights. REALLY!!

I'd love to think that other airlines may be interested but other than Jetblue I'm struggling? American and United have both cut several UK services, Delta seem happy to leave it to Virgin who don't appear interested in BHX. Thomas Cook are another who don't want to know. Norwegian could be an option but personally I'd rather have Primera doing Newark and Logan over Providence and Stewart.

No airline or carrier for that matter is going to fly a route for 20 years if there is no demand/ not financially viable. From what i can see the birmingham to newark route survived 9/11 and the financial crisis of 2008.

Yet the service eventually came to an end. We can all speculate why, Brexit, ageing planes, loco competition etc but if the route was that profitable it would still be being flown.

I wonder if the market as strong as we think as one would of have thought that the end of United would have been music to Icelandairs ears, yet even with a strong emphasis on transatlantic connections they couldn't get out of the door quick enough?

To me the fact that all hopes now rest on a relatively unknown Scandinavian airline speaks volumes.

I'm sure i read somewhere on this forum that a representative was touring uk airports which included birmingham.

In recent weeks Jetblue reps have been reported at Birmingham along with one or two London airports.

Jetblue would have the advantage of being very well known at the USA end along with extensive connections via NY and Boston. I think the decision as to whether they will attempt transatlantic is due soon, if they do decide to give it a go lets hope that we are on the list.

I've heard stories on here of people telling their friends and relatives they were flying to Spain, and when they mentioned Norwegian their F&R said "I thought you were going to Spain not Norway"!

That was my wife

Our flights with Norwegian were great and if they hadn't pulled out they would be my first choice airline. If Primera can match their on board service, both long and short haul, hopefully word will spread quickly, repeat business from regular flyers could be key. I also wouldn't underestimate how important it is to come out top on Skyscanner, Google Flights etc.

It would be nice if a tie up could be done with Flybe for some connecting traffic. Even just a handful a day could be a big boost.

 

[Creguk]

I used United and their service was just OK. I would rather pay for a cheaper ticket on a more modern plane, using my own entertainment instead of substandard IFE. There must be faith in the service if it is daily too. Go primera!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Encouraging words from Primera’s Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer.

And Višņakova sees a growing opportunity in Birmingham, as other carriers have announced they’re suspending service to England’s second largest city. “Birmingham booking numbers are very, very good,” she said.

Višņakova said bookings so far exceed the airline’s expectations. “We’ve had a great reception in Europe and an increasingly warm reception in the US,” she said.

She said the carrier is relying mostly on online marketing to get the word out about its service in the US. It must be working: Višņakova said between 60 and 65 percent of current bookings are coming from the US.

http://aviationtribune.com/ceo-inte...airline-offer-low-fare-transatlantic-flights/