Leeds Bradford - General Thread

[Aviador]

Not trying to be an alarmist or anything but runway 14 has seen it's fair share of overruns.

1985 - British Airtours - Tristar - 398 passengers
2005 - LTE - Airbus A320 - 180 passengers
???? - Cessna citation - Private
2010 - Cessna citation - Private

I don't think in this instance the runway length would have made any significant difference. V1 are V2 are variable depending on the length of the runway in use at any airport and these points are there to ensure that in the event of a problem the aircraft is able to stop safely. Although the aircraft went off the runway the aircraft did come to a stop safely and the persons on board got out without harm. The AAIB made recommendations after the incident with the LTE Airbus A320 saying that declared distances at certain points down the runway would be an advantage. Correct me if I am wrong but from what I understand this has now being implemented. All that said, a couple of hundred metres of extra concrete wouldn't go a miss.

 

[lbaspotter]

What has'nt help is the fact that LBA now has no CATIII on runway 32 as the citation that crashed at LBA last week has took some of the lighting out down the horsforth end.

Not good news at all if we get fog. As the CATIII lighting will take about 3 weeks to repair then the system will have to be recalebrated by the CAA. Which as we all know takes 30 days or so to make sure the system works right again.

So we could be without CATIII for upto nearly 7 to 8 weeks if all gose to plan.

 

[rhinoscrazy]

is this why the planes look like they are coming in higher?

 

[yorkshire]

I take it the pilot will have to pay for the repairs and not the airport?

 

[Aviador]

An insurance company I would expect. I'm no expert but I think aircraft have to be insured in the same way we insure our cars.

 

[User0001]

What has'nt help is the fact that LBA now has no CATIII on runway 32 as the citation that crashed at LBA last week has took some of the lighting out down the horsforth end.

Not good news at all if we get fog. As the CATIII lighting will take about 3 weeks to repair then the system will have to be recalebrated by the CAA. Which as we all know takes 30 days or so to make sure the system works right again.

So we could be without CATIII for upto nearly 7 to 8 weeks if all gose to plan.

Simply not true you'll be pleased to hear, and CATIII fully available (and in use tonight; LS316 and LS266 both making full 3a landings as I type)

 

[pilot_737]

I wouldn't have thought lighting makes any difference on the ILS
after all if it's foggy the lights won't be seen and also an ils is a fully instrument landing and not a visual landing.

 

[Aviador]

I think it is at the pilots discretion as to whether or not they will carry out an autoland without the CAT II/ III supplementary lighting.

 

[User0001]

Correct. Lighting issues need to be passed to the crew in advance of starting the approach to allow them to make a decision. Last night, there were no details being passed from ATC regarding any issues at all with the lighting and nothing is NOTAM'd or on the ATIS, so there aren't any issues.

Remember, the aircraft last week didn't enter the undershoot, it veered right towards the 'pan' area so it wouldn't have interfered with any of the approach lighting anyway.

 

[White Heather]

If that is the case, then surely runway length was not relevant to the Citation accident last week? As usual, the length of the runway always comes into scrutiny whenever there is an incident, but to my knowledge it has not been found to be the cause of any of the incidents at LBA. The BA Tristar on 27th May 1985 would have had no problem stopping if the pilot had actually touched down at the correct point rather than in front of Multiflight, which meant he over-flew the entire runway extension. By the time he got his nose wheel down he was 75% down the runway.

Does anyone know anyway if the Citation back tracked 14 for take off? I have seen these aircraft start their take off run at the end of the Multiflight taxiway, just by the main road tunnel, which is fine normally, but give little margin if they have a problem.

 

[nwh45]

The official report on the Tristar incident states the aircraft landed within the touchdown zone it states the aircraft didn’t meet the braking efficiently. If I remember correctly it was also tanking fuel from Palma increasing its landing weight.

 

[stevolba]

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/2-1987 G-BBAI.pdf thats the official report into the Tristar crash

 

[White Heather]

Whatever the report says, there are photos of the Tristar touching down directly between the terminal and Multiflight, with its nose wheel well up in the air still. You are right in that the aircraft was stated not to have braked as efficiently as Lockheed stated it should, but those test figures were based on a different runway in the USA and I was told by the airport MD that there was no way it was ever going to stop with the load it had on, given it was airborne (to some degree) until it was over half way down the runway. Reverse Thrust was also (so I am told) could only be deployed after all wheels were down, and it simply left too little runway for that aircraft. Had it touched down further towards the Yeadon end, and on the extension, it would have been OK.

Thet information was presented to me, and others at the Consultative Committee meetings at the time, and in person by the airport MD. Whislt the crew were not directly blamed in the report, it was clear that they could have, and should have done better with that landing.

 

[User0001]

That is correct White Heather. I also saw photographs of the Tri Star landing,and it was well down the runway near the intersection of the two runways. If I remember rightly it was recommended that the runway be regroved. The RAF made several landings after this and found no fault with the runway. The person who took the photographs was also took photographs of the BA 737 that caught fire at MAN.

 

[backtrack]

I have noticed recently, an outside electrical company have been in and around the airport, mostly working over night, called Nia-Con, who seem to be replacing a lot of lighting areas with newer more efficient bulbs etc. Was this a part of the expansion/update plans?

 

[Aviador]

I have noticed recently, an outside electrical company have been in and around the airport, mostly working over night, called Nia-Con, who seem to be replacing a lot of lighting areas with newer more efficient bulbs etc. Was this a part of the expansion/update plans?

No just part of continuous improvements. Nia-Con have a semi-permanent base at the airport.

 

[backtrack]

I have noticed recently, an outside electrical company have been in and around the airport, mostly working over night, called Nia-Con, who seem to be replacing a lot of lighting areas with newer more efficient bulbs etc. Was this a part of the expansion/update plans?

No just part of continuous improvements. Nia-Con have a semi-permanent base at the airport.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up Aviador. (welcome back to work for Thursday too)

 

[backtrack]

As part of the expansion plans, are there any in place for any new retail, either landside or airside?

Reason i ask is, a passenger asked me yesterday this exact question as they thought what we offer, especially airside was poor. I said, its not my department and directed them towards the complaints form.

Always interesting to get the passengers views, if only they asked Tony Hallwood or someone like that instead of me...

 

[Aviador]

Although it's still unclear when the work will begin, a sizable proportion of the new development is earmarked for retail. There are several shopping units planned along with a much larger new Duty Free and Tax Free shop.

I just wished we new when the developing would start.

(Thank you for the gentle reminder that I'm returning to work! :nea: )

 

[White Heather]

As per the minutes of the last consultative committee, it is still intended to start enabling works for the terminal expansion at the end of the summer 2010 season.