Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

[White Heather]

I will see if I can ask that Aviador. Officially I have to submit formal questions in advance of the meeting and before the agenda was issued, which was yesterday. I have already written to LBA to ask if they can provide any stats to confirm the numbers of foreign nationals using flights into LBA in view of the suggestions that LBA was not as interested in attracting inward tourism. That query is with Tony Hallwood at the moment, but the initial response is that this information is released (or not released) by the airlines so it will be dependent upon what they will or will not release to LBA for publication. I have asked if this information can be made available on a regular basis as part of the stats given to the Consultative Committee. I have provided the April and May passenger figures though today.

 

[Seasider]

I will see if I can ask that Aviador. Officially I have to submit formal questions in advance of the meeting and before the agenda was issued, which was yesterday. I have already written to LBA to ask if they can provide any stats to confirm the numbers of foreign nationals using flights into LBA in view of the suggestions that LBA was not as interested in attracting inward tourism. That query is with Tony Hallwood at the moment, but the initial response is that this information is released (or not released) by the airlines so it will be dependent upon what they will or will not release to LBA for publication. I have asked if this information can be made available on a regular basis as part of the stats given to the Consultative Committee. I have provided the April and May passenger figures though today.

Have you had any success on this?

 

[White Heather]

I did write in advance as promised and it was discussed at the last meeting. LBA said they would 'look into it' further. I won't find out what the outcome is/was until the next meeting and they are only every 3 months. Things don't tend to happen very quickly I am afraid. However, some of the new routes introduced by Ryanair are clearly intended to bring about an increase in inward tourism, which is now more attractive due to the impact of Brexit.

 

[leedslad]

I'd like to enquire about recent multiple comments in the media regarding a Parkway station please? I would be interested to hear if that is now seen as a forerunner or if they still prefer a direct line?

On the same note could we ask if this following option has been considered? I think it would deliver great benefit and bring about a direct link much more quickly...

Could they agree on the route a direct rail line would take to the airport, secure the required land and then complete the earthworks only. I appreciate this would incur some cost but I assume it's the relative cheap part of the overall rail link project. A short 100m spur could be built to house a temporary parkway station.

Until the much more expensive further phases could be funded (ie electrification, constitution of rails and station, extra trains etc) these earthworks could then be used as a dedicated direct bus lane between the airport and rail line.

I believe this to be a better option than a standard parkway since

1 it secures the direct line route to the airport
2 the connecting bus shuttle service would be far more reliable and convenient
3 it helps to phase the eventual direct rail line
4 it avoids a Parkway being built somewhere on the existing line that will just become permanent with no direct line ever built
5 trains could stop at the spur without disrupting existing timetables

 

[White Heather]

Leedslad, the whole reason behind the parkway station is to enable mainline trains to stop there en route between Leeds and Harrogate/Knaresborough/York. It is also the hope that in time, there will be through trains from the likes of Bradford or Huddersfield to Harrogate, (all electrified) again stopping at the airport along the route, whilst some of the 7 London East Coast trains planned for Harrogate from 2019 may also be able to stop there instead of Horsforth. It is also possible that a park and ride facility will be put there, at the same time as the new link road (assuming it goes via route A, which is the only logical route it can take).
Putting the parkway station on a spur would not enable any of that to happen. It has to be on the main line. In addition, although what you are suggesting has merits, the heavy rail link to the airport is all but dead. There has been several reports confirming that the geography of the land is too steep a gradient. A through line linking the Harrogate line to the Ilkley line via the airport is seen as a necessity to make it work, but it would have to be a tram train. As we know, the Sheffield to Rotherham tram train link is very much a trial for this and has been put back yet again - so the expectation is that it will be some years yet before such a system will be ready for Leeds and the airport. Although it hasn't been confirmed yet, I suspect that the decisions have already been made as to what will happen and I think the realisation is that in the short term, the parkway station on the mainline is the only option as it can be delivered in a few years and relatively low cost. I really cannot see the airport (or anyone else) buying up the land to do the earthworks for the direct link until such time as it is confirmed that the tram train technology will work and, crucially, is seen to be affordable.

 

[leedslad]

Agree it's probably just a pie in the sky idea (mine). It's just I know our transport investment history too well. I just know if a Parkway is built as a temporary solution it'll end up being permanent and it'll be so inconvenient it'll just not work...

Me to international business visitor visiting my Leeds out of town office...

Yeah it's easy, after arriving pop outside to wait ten mins for a shuttle bus but make sure you get the right bus. Then arrive at the parkway station a bit early to give plenty of time to be on platform. Then rattle in to Leeds on old diesel train. Then go from platform 1 across to 12 and wait fifteen minutes. Get on the train to near my office, and simply a five minute walk and you'll be outside...

 

[White Heather]

Unfortunately, until tram train is ready, the parkway station is the only option. It is that or nowt for the time being. It can be delivered in a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost. Now that both supertram and trolley bus are dead, the tram train is a main focus of attention, but it is years away yet. Something direct to the airport is still the preferred option for the airport. Leeds Council, MPs, Councillors and even Bradford Council (who also support tram train). But the Harrogate Line is very likely to be electrified and building the station as part of that makes sense. And, it wouldn't be a rattly old diesel either. It is likely to be a similar electric train to those currently on the Ilkley and Skipton Lines - nice trains too.

 

[leedslad]

Hi Heather

Could you please ask the airport to confirm how they see the link to the proposed parkway train station working?

At this early stage do they envisage it will be run by bus, or to make it work well are they prepared to commit to investing in a fix people mover system?

 

[Aviador]

Hi Heather

Could you please ask the airport to confirm how they see the link to the proposed parkway train station working?

At this early stage do they envisage it will be run by bus, or to make it work well are they prepared to commit to investing in a fix people mover system?

View attachment 4243

Just joking!

It's a bus for sure.

 

[leedslad]

I'm pretty sure it will be too sadly. I see others disagree but from personal experience when visiting foreign cities it's too complicated relying on ground transport that requires a change... are you on the right bus, do you have to pay on the bus, how do you know which stop to get off at, which platform do you need and is the train just minutes away are all quite stressful versus jump in a taxi...

 

[rmac]

That's the value of an Information desk. And it varies from one airport to another. Arriving at Heathrow is a bit different to arriving at -say Wick, but in most cases if the funds allow a taxi will tend to be the least stressful way, unless your arriving/departing Athens!!

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Leedslad: There are many travel forums which will supply the information you require on local transport functions. I operate as an Destination Expert (not a title I sort) for the Costa Del Sol for one travel forum and this is a bog standard question that comes up daily and we have a set answer. I note I have made over 12,000 individual responses in my time in the post, every day brings another batch of local questions.
Since the start of this month, closing the visual passport check at malaga and basically making people use the passport readers has been a huge issue for forum members. We have tried to give up to date information. The heavy rainfall flooding T3 last week (all the design faults coming home to roost), again people need up to date information.
Thats the beauty of the internet, visiting a new city opens up many vital questions, and usually the internet can give you the answer.

 

[leedslad]

This may be true, but let's say I'm visiting Leeds and someone helpfully advises the following, I'm still getting a taxi...

Leave the terminal and hop on the shuttle bus. Make sure you wait in the right place or you might end up on a car park shuttle bus or a service bus.

Then lug your bags on for the five minute journey to the station. You'll arrive in loads of time so plenty of time to hang about and work out which platform... Then simply lug your bags on the train.

This versus... follow signs to the terminal airport and get on the Leeds bound train.

 

[yorkguy]

A heavy rail link directly to the airport is perfectly possible from an engineering point of view. This isn't the Alps, neither is it London or Manchester where budgets and aspirational vision are far greater.

 

[Aviador]

This may be true, but let's say I'm visiting Leeds and someone helpfully advises the following, I'm still getting a taxi...

Leave the terminal and hop on the shuttle bus. Make sure you wait in the right place or you might end up on a car park shuttle bus or a service bus.

Then lug your bags on for the five minute journey to the station. You'll arrive in loads of time so plenty of time to hang about and work out which platform... Then simply lug your bags on the train.

This versus... follow signs to the terminal airport and get on the Leeds bound train.

It will be in the airports own interest to ensure the ease of passengers using the new station to get to the airport. I see no reason why the airport bus can't be waiting at the station at the arrival times to ensure a rapid transit to the airport.

 

[White Heather]

A heavy rail link directly to the airport is perfectly possible from an engineering point of view. This isn't the Alps, neither is it London or Manchester where budgets and aspirational vision are far greater.

No it isn't. A report recently commissioned states that the gradient between the Leeds Harrogate line and LBA is too steep for heavy rail - and it is also too steep at the other end going down to Guiseley, the intention being that any rail link runs between the two lines via LBA, thereby providing a link not only to Leeds, Harrogate and York, but also to Guiseley, Ilkley, Bradford, Kirkstall Forge, etc. A tram train system is the most likely longer term solution.

As for how the parkway station will operate, I am fairly sure I have posted this before but all indications are that the system will be very simply that the car park shuttle buses will have their route extended to call at the station to pick up rail passengers heading for LBA. As the car park buses are clearly operated by LBA, there is little risk of anyone getting on the wrong bus even if the new park and ride is added to any bus route operated by First - which is by no means certain as apart from the park and ride there is nothing else in the vicinity (yet) to attract a bus route.

 

[leedslad]

It will be in the airports own interest to ensure the ease of passengers using the new station to get to the airport. I see no reason why the airport bus can't be waiting at the station at the arrival times to ensure a rapid transit to the airport.

Like the car park shuttle buses that seem to go missing for twenty nervous minutes at a time, especially outside peak times?

 

[yorkguy]

Yes of course the gradient on the surface from the Harrogate line to the airport is too steep. The Victorians invented railway tunnels to get over that. Like I said, from a railway engineering point of view, perfectly possible, but from a financial/aspirational point of view, no chance

 

[rmac]

I am amazed at the negative comments re: Parkway Station and Park and Ride. I thought this news would have been seen as positive.

 

[leedslad]

It's just a nail in the coffin for ever having a direct link whilst being a halfway house solution that will be little used by airport patrons due to the hassle of using it...

I'm not really for the something is better than nothing approach. .