Pakistan International Airlines

[Aviador]

Supposedly we're going to be having those sort of high temperatures here later on in the week. It will be interesting to see how the flight operates in the lighter warmer air.

 

[User0001]

Maybe this is having an effect? I believe on the saturday previous flight, there were a final pax figure of 197, compared with the recent <100's.

197....impressive going for a 184 seat aircraft.

Some of the old school PIA pilots report a "souls on board" figure to tower when they call up 10 mins prior to push for their ATC clearance. This number includes all of the flight and cabin crew and the occasional engineers they ferry back and forth. Generally they operate with a basic crew confing of 17. So, if someone heard 197 souls on board, you'd be looking at 180 fare paying passengers

 

[backtrack]

Maybe this is having an effect? I believe on the saturday previous flight, there were a final pax figure of 197, compared with the recent <100's.

197....impressive going for a 184 seat aircraft.

Some of the old school PIA pilots report a "souls on board" figure to tower when they call up 10 mins prior to push for their ATC clearance. This number includes all of the flight and cabin crew and the occasional engineers they ferry back and forth. Generally they operate with a basic crew confing of 17. So, if someone heard 197 souls on board, you'd be looking at 180 fare paying passengers

That was exactly what i meant. Sorry, glad you sorted the minor confusion anyone had.

 

[White Heather]

So more or less full, which is very encouraging after the recent drop in passengers on some flights.

 

[Aviador]

Learnt today that PIA intend to bring the Boeing 777 into Leeds in October.

 

[White Heather]

Presumably from the start of the winter timetable then, and quite possibly as the number of flights per week drops back down to two, although it would be nice to maintain the three all year round. Hopefully too, it might mark the start of another route such as Lahore or Dubai - fingers crossed.

 

[backtrack]

Learnt today that PIA intend to bring the Boeing 777 into Leeds in October.

Is that pretty reliable for Oct? as they keep saying certain months then changing their minds...

 

[Aviador]

It is from a reliable source but you know how things can change. Word has it that they still intend to transfer their entire Manchester operation to Leeds. Time will tell as they say.

 

[White Heather]

I am not aware that any month has been given previously for PIA to bring the 777 to Leeds, but the start of the winter season makes sense. I really cannot imagine the airline dropping MAN altogether though. It would be very nice, but in reality there is demand for both airports.

 

[Aviador]

Does anyone know why last nights PIA made a go-around and a second approach?

 

[empire]

It did not make a go-around. It made a procedural NDB approach onto 32 (ie routed to the overhead before following the procedure from the NDB back onto 32 approach) due to the LBA radar being U/S.

 

[Aviador]

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure exactly what he was doing so that explains everything.

 

[backtrack]

PIA delayed 26th July, till 01.30 on the following tuesday morning, due to errors in the loadsheet. However, when resolved found their system to be wrong. Manual loadsheet had been done, but Captain didnt accept, so in the end, they faxed one through from Karachi, simply by "adding additional weight" to the rear of the aircraft. That additional weight wasnt actually added to the aircraft.

I am surprised with the state of those A310's we have not had any major problems yet. Fuel leaks are now a regular occurance when they pull onto stand.

 

[Aviador]

I am surprised with the state of those A310's we have not had any major problems yet. Fuel leaks are now a regular occurance when they pull onto stand.

This was posted by WYIA on page 7 of this thread which seems a reasonable explanation.

Fuel leaks do happen alot, its more common with some aircraft than others.

Observe a heavy Fokker100 getting up on a hot day and look out for a thin "vortex" under the wings which is infact a stream of fuel coming out of the overflow valves as the tanks ballance out on departure.

Malfunctions in tank pumps or errors by the fuel service and cockpit crew can often lead to large overflow when the aircraft is on the ground. Airtours/Mytravel 757 aircraft had several fuel leaks when they operated from LBA I recall.

The overflow valves are there for just that purpose, they allow excess fuel due to over-fuels or pump malfunctions to escape the aircraft quickly. This is why ground staff should direct passengers arround the aircraft wing, lol not due to danger of flaps or hitting your head lol. Just incase the overflow valves kick in.

These fuel leaks are i assume purely down to the pumps or human error and not that there is a massive hole in the fuel tanks of the aircraft i am sure lol.

I am not playing down the fact that a fuel leak is a dangerous situation however there are some points to note;

It evaporates very quickly and often needs little intervention from the airport fire service except to keep the area free of an ignition source and keep people away. If there is a great quantity of fuel then the fire service usually spray foam or use a type of "Dangerous goods sponge" which absorb spills of fuel and oil.

In terms of ignition souce, it does need quite a high heat concentration to iginite. Ground staff are often running about the airport telling (shouting) at passengers to turn off their mobile phones as it is an ignition source lol (health and safety britain gone mad)
It would take a stupid fool and a box of matches to get a pool of aviation fuel burning not a phone, radio or the sun etc etc.

If the fuel was indeed all over the ramp at stand 8, then we are talking about a hell of alot of fuel so something has gone very badly wrong. That stand can fit a 767-300 so thats a rather large area, or perhaps someone got a tad carried away with that.. was it just a "large pool" perhaps within the stand area.

It would be interesting to know just how much and also was it on both sides of the a/c - ie- had the fuel come out of both wings?

Most incidents no matter how small or big , from bird strikes right up to tail strikes - end up in reports made to the CAA & i am sure after a recent bout of issues with the A310 fleet; PIA will be watched closely.

LBA need to remain in a good partnership with PIA regardless of these issues, if it gets to the point when Europe bans the A310 fleet then LBA an PIA need to get the airport ready for 777 operation ASAP. This service could well become almost daily within the next 2 years and this is revenue the airport can not pass up on.

Lets hope PIA get this sorted now and get the A310 fleet through some serious checks and overhauls. Its not easy in the current climate and the A310 spares will continue to get more expensive and less available.

One final note, fuel pumps go tech on a/c daily and it can be a brand new 737 less than a week old or a 19 year old A310. I can not speak for PIA and its fleet condition and service methods but it could just be some very bad luck at the same airport in a short period of time.

 

[White Heather]

That is one long delay bearing in mind it landed at 1820 - Surely they could have sorted it out quicker than that?

My colleague at work flew in from Nice last night (and said her Jet2 flight was around 30% full) but commented that the terminal was crazy with a whole family seeming to turn up for every departing passenger on the PIA. I have noted that before in the days of Swedair. Our terminal just can't cope with that, but it seems to be part of the culture and no doubt is a regular event 3 times a week!

 

[backtrack]

Yeah, the passengers must have been sat on there for at least 4 hours before pushback!

You are right, every time its a "PIA Night" (Mon, Wed, Sat) you can see the masses crowded in the terminals to see off their family members. Its the same for the arrival of inbound aircraft, the gate through to landside from baggage reclaim is often crowded with many family members meeting their family/friends. Next time we have PIA, just take a look at the ramp off the main road up to the entrance to short stay 1 car park. That is, every time blocked with car after car bumper to bumper.

The airport will see this as a good thing as most who stay in short stay get charged quite high prices to stay.

 

[Bigman]

Hang on, are we getting mixed up here. Mondays flight came in at 18:20 but had gone well before 21:00 as I watched it depart. And ironically it was AP-BEU, which is the usual suspect when it comes to fuel problems. We must be talking about the Saturday flight.

 

[backtrack]

Hang on, are we getting mixed up here. Mondays flight came in at 18:20 but had gone well before 21:00 as I watched it depart. And ironically it was AP-BEU, which is the usual suspect when it comes to fuel problems. We must be talking about the Saturday flight.

Correct Bigman. It was the Saturday 25th flight.

 

[WYIA]

I have to say, in relation to these delays. Comments on load sheets and passengers onboard for hours.....

There are afew issues with load sheet delays & servisair .. not just for PIA i can assure you.

Sadly too, I can only say that overworked and unorganised staffing situations in companies throughout LBA at the moment are causing long delays. Its making LBA an unpleasant and unprofessional place to travel through, its not good people.

As a regular passenger lately, I have faced 30 minute waits for luggage (with 2 inbounds max | )

As a crew member, i have faced over 30 minute waits for wheelchair assistance for passengers... with often 2 men on shift for all inbounds!!!!?? HELLO!!!

THIS... is why nobody wants to fly from Leeds... THIS is why the airlines are slowing down investing in it. People stand around scratching heads wanting to know why people are going down the M62.... ? Choice, more organised, space, relaxed, professional, not tacky… the list goes on.

Planning permission granted, work to be done. However, more than cosmetic is needed at LBA. Some of the levels of customer service are just shocking.

 

[White Heather]

So, who is it that is failing to invest in sufficient staff - the airport itself, or the likes of Servisair?

Your post is worrying, and I think that the comments you have made should be sent to the airport board to address. However, I have to take issue with your assertion that nobody wants to fly from LBA - when clearly they do. I would always choose LBA, and I work with numerous people who all want to fly from LBA by preference, and most do if the flights are available at a reasonable cost. They only head West because they cannot get the flights or the ones out of LBA are fully booked/too expensive.

Those who have flown through LBA have not had any concerns about their experiences other than the usual ones relating to the cramped terminal, waiting time through the inadequate security zone and other issues that the terminal development will eventually take care of. Whilst I do not doubt that there is some justification for what you say, surely every airport suffers delays from time to time. It might be nice to get your luggage back immediately after landing, but in reality 30 minutes is not an unreasonable time to unload an aircraft, transport the luggage to the conveyor and be picked up. I have often waited far longer than that, including my last trip into Manchester when the luggage took 45 minutes to arrive at midnight when the airport was very quiet and 1 hour at Tenerife, also late at night in a quiet airport!

As for airlines failing to invest in LBA - yes we have lost some and some routes, but in the week in which Jet2 announce Corfu and Bergerac (bringing out total routes from LBA to 40) and shortly after Flybe quickly brought into service the LGW route, I can't help but think your comments are rather more negative than the reality. Every airport is struggling to attract new airlines at the moment and losing more routes than they are gaining, so LBA is not suffering any worse than most. Inevitably, airports and the companies operating within the airport are going to cut back on their costs and staffing if the numbers of flights has been reduced and equally inevitably, some customers will not be happy. Watch Airline on TV and we can all see that this is nothing new.

However, if you wish I would be happy to copy your comments to the Airport Operations Director without giving any details as to where they came from and see what he makes of them. I would happily have taken them to the next Consultative Committee meeting, but it is not until mid November. Just let me know if you wish me to do either. I do feel though that comments such as these should be passed to them for information so they can see what people think and assess what needs to be done.