Leeds Bradford - General Thread

[arry]

I’m very interested and grateful to the many responses I’ve received to my original post of frustration. I feel compelled to respond although I wasn’t minded to.
To Tarnspotter and Snowman who have valid and obvious physical needs I hope that LBIA, as a business, responds to your obvious and very valid needs. Having nursed and lost 2 very needy and passionate flyers in my parents who have both died in the past 18 months I have every sympathy as I’ve been the main carer and understand your needs. As an able person (fortunately for now) I simply want the get on and out of your way for you to follow on behind in whatever form that takes. I would say that the dawdlers I mentioned showed no mobility deficiencies, they just ambled along.
WH you pose the question of what we need. I don’t think that’s too hard to answer.
I’d like the same experience a LBA as I experience at AGP ever month.
We arrive at our the gate, the airbridge makes contact or at LBA we access the walkway and make our way towards passport control, customs and out.
Look, honestly, I’ve not asked for the world, just the same that most experience in most 21st century airports. Let’s not justify the current experience but deliver what is the expected norm.
I believe this is what business users want but also the majority of flying passengers.
I don’t know whether it’s, as has been suggested by others, the Border Control Agency that doesn’t like the walkway, although I don’t accept why, whether it’s the airlines or any other body, surely the passengers deserve better than the third world experience we currently have.
I’m not being radical nor demanding just pleading to make a proportionate journey from arrival to sensible and efficient egress from the airport.
I’ve been a quiet follower of the forum for many years. I’ve watched the elation and frustration of routes lost or gained. If we can’t get the the basics of boarding and arrivals right what’s the point of all the angst of the technical details we often see discussed?

 

[paully]

Well said Arry, you have described the problem perfectly.

 

[Britannia94]

I really find it unfair how the new management are expected to have the terminal sorted to offer a experience that suites everyone’s needs, unforntately I can’t see the needs to everyone being catered but they will do a damn good job in trying to. We need to realise that the new owners bought the airport and it’s terminal from the previous owners the way it is, surely they’re allowed to be given time to develop the terminal to offer a more convient and friendly experience. Now i understand that we are all entitled to our opinions, which don’t get me wrong I find it such an interesting read to see things from over peoples point of view, but we can’t just expect the new owners and management to whip out a new terminal months after purchasing things the way they are.

 

[Finger66]

Absolutely. Its just that everyone wants everything yesterday and also there is only them to consider! Surely it makes sense to take the time needed to get it right, especially if you are having to right potentially previous wrongs. Things are improving and will continue to do so

 

[paully]

Where do you get `Everything yesterday` from?..Arry raised some valid points, as did others, as to the way to go. Everyone understands its takes time to achieve these things, but there are certain directions people would like the new management to go in.

That all

 

[Aviador]

Absolutely. Its just that everyone wants everything yesterday and also there is only them to consider! Surely it makes sense to take the time needed to get it right, especially if you are having to right potentially previous wrongs. Things are improving and will continue to do so

Lets not beat around the bush here. Passengers have waited a decade for the above terminal extension which was planned to greatly improve the passenger experience and it never happened. Passengers are tired of waiting and tired of listening to promises made by airport CEO's. There is a new team in place, you're right, things can't happen over night but we need to see things moving as fast as they can. Personally I would like to see thing visibly improving within two years. That's a good lead time for any infrastructure planning. I've said this before, but other airports are expanding, LBA has fallen behind as has Leeds itself which has very little building or construction taking place in comparison with neighbouring cities. #LBA #expansion #development #frustration

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Absolutely. Its just that everyone wants everything yesterday and also there is only them to consider! Surely it makes sense to take the time needed to get it right, especially if you are having to right potentially previous wrongs. Things are improving and will continue to do so

I vehemently disagree with your first sentence Finger66. Swissport is an absolute disgrace and the quicker they are got rid of the better. The complaints that people have are repeated consistently, have been for years and normally concern basic things that are incredibly simple to resolve. The basics are what LBA NEEDS to do exceptionally well to have any chance of competing with rival airports because, let's be honest, convenience is its main selling point. In almost every way, LBA is better than MAN yet passengers still have the same opinion and you have to ask why that is. I suggest it is because yesterday it didn't meet their expectations.

Anyway, I decided to come out of my slumber and post again because of David Laws' recent work with the media. I have to say, he has had a much more positive impact with the use of social media and he seems to be actually building a half decent relationship with the likes of YEP and Look North etc. PR was something that his predecessor was a complete disaster at and there is little doubt in my mind that this is a massive step in the right direction.

However, his candour concerning building new relationships with airline partners is not winning me over. The beginning of his tenure has seen some key losses and the BA situation does not give me the confidence that he can convince legacy carriers, or the likes of Emirates et al, to begin or increase operations at LBA. Nor do I think he will find it easy to find reliable and realistic operators to revive some domestic routes. I hope that his obviously excellent PR skills will help but this will be one that I will have to see to believe.

Still, if points were available for saying the right things, Laws would be top of the podium. All he has to do now is deliver. Best of luck.

P.S. I have been doing quite a lot of travelling with work recently. We have an office about 20 minutes from Southampton airport. Flights to Southampton come in largely around £150 return. Over the hill, they average out at about £80 return. Even with an open train ticket to Manchester airport, I'd be saving our company roughly £50 a journey by using MAN instead of LBA and it is likely that this will be what I do. This could add up to thousands and thousands of pounds a year for my company if everyone who needs to travel is taken into account. I suggest David Laws starts there when looking for reasons why people from Yorkshire think Manchester is a better idea.

 

[Finger66]

At no point have i said anyone doesnt have a valid point and at no point have i said things are perfect. Current management are making strides but have to also rectify previous failings which cant be done overnight. As regards any cheaper flights over the hill this is because larger and cheaper aircraft are used to transport larger numbers. So yes management have to do their bit to help change perception. Equally the incumbent carrier has to improve reliability. And finally if yorkshire folk supported their local airport then these larger more economical aircraft may just appear at LBA. I will stand by my comment things are improving but do share opinions that there is still a long way to go

 

[Seasider]

........I don’t know whether it’s, as has been suggested by others, the Border Control Agency that doesn’t like the walkway, although I don’t accept why, whether it’s the airlines or any other body, surely the passengers deserve better than the third world experience we currently have.

You should go to Eindhoven, they have a walkway there that is open to the elements and the majority of pax on my flight were very wet before they boarded the plane. I did not hear an adverse comment by any pax around me whilst waiting to board. It is not fun sitting in wet clothes for 2 hours in a cramped A321.
At least the walkway at LBA is covered.

 

[Seasider]

P.S. I have been doing quite a lot of travelling with work recently. We have an office about 20 minutes from Southampton airport. Flights to Southampton come in largely around £150 return. Over the hill, they average out at about £80 return. Even with an open train ticket to Manchester airport, I'd be saving our company roughly £50 a journey by using MAN instead of LBA and it is likely that this will be what I do. This could add up to thousands and thousands of pounds a year for my company if everyone who needs to travel is taken into account. I suggest David Laws starts there when looking for reasons why people from Yorkshire think Manchester is a better idea.

Can you get an open return from Leeds (I assume) to Manchester airport for £20?

 

[LBA8098]

I wholeheartedly agree with Aviador's comments iro of a long awaited terminal extension. The 4m pax mark has now been surpassed which we have been told for some time would be the trigger point. I think LBA has & appears to be plagues by a complete lack of ambition resulting in very little investment in terms of additional floor space. Complete contrast to BRS who are now reaping the rewards of major terminal investment!

 

[paully]

Yet only this morning advert on TV in the Yorkshire region advertising Flybe flights from Doncaster with free 23kg hold baggage allowance on all routes..Limited time offer of course, but seemingly not available from Leeds. Its things like this Mr Laws needs to address..

 

[lbaspotter]

Yet only this morning advert on TV in the Yorkshire region advertising Flybe flights from Doncaster with free 23kg hold baggage allowance on all routes..Limited time offer of course, but seemingly not available from Leeds. Its things like this Mr Laws needs to address..

I guess that was one of those adverts DSA owners peel paid for not Flybe?
It's just like them subsides DSA pay Flybe to operate its flights as part of its "Project Blackbird" Deal, which must have contributed to them huge operating losses the airport reported not so long ago

 

[Finger66]

I guess that was one of those adverts DSA owners peel paid for not Flybe?
It's just like them subsides DSA pay Flybe to operate its flights as part of its "Project Blackbird" Deal, which must have contributed to them huge losses the airport reported not so long ago

And is equally likely to be a reflection on just how well, or perhaps poorly, Flybe's ops at DSA are performing. That said, such an offer at LBA whilst yes would stimulate some growth, it would also seriously eat into any operating profits. I would suggest "yes" for SOU and ABZ, poss NQY and DUS but would leave BHD well alone. Poss also good on any new routes such as CDG to stimulate the initial demand and awareness. In the nicest possible way, yes LBA is the poor sister to MAN but equally DSA is very much the poor sister to LBA. DSA has huge potential for freight but yes Mr Laws definitely time to grab the LBA passenger experience fully by the horns and reap some rewards from immediate infrastructure investment

 

[White Heather]

I wholeheartedly agree with Aviador's comments iro of a long awaited terminal extension. The 4m pax mark has now been surpassed which we have been told for some time would be the trigger point. I think LBA has & appears to be plagues by a complete lack of ambition resulting in very little investment in terms of additional floor space. Complete contrast to BRS who are now reaping the rewards of major terminal investment!

Yet LBA will next month open a new extended lounge area within the terminal (that at the time of the terminal extension approval had not been identified as an option or considered). Although this area will be used as the new Yorkshire Executive Lounge, the additional space provides room for an overall increase of 500 seats which will not be part of any bar, or eatery - just seats. Yes the 4m pax was the trigger point and the terminal extension can be built when required, but chances are next year we won't hit 4m pax lito the loss of Monarch, the reduction in BA by 50% and the reduction in Thomas Cook due to their inability to source a leased aircraft to operate the LBA base. Maintaining the status quo is the best we can expect in 2018/19 unless new routes or operators are secured. The new area in the terminal will make a significant difference, and the changes proposed for the following winter, an even bigger difference. This years work has been expensive - next year's even more so - then there is the airfield lighting replacement scheme, taking 3 winters to complete - plus further car parking developments. It may not seem like they are investing, because they are not the changes we want to see, but they are in fact throwing large amounts of money into LBA on an ongoing basis. As a business, the airport has to earn profits towards these investments. Nobody is going to magic up many millions of pounds if they cannot see it being recouped over a given period of time, and as we saw only last year, the aviation business is so volatile, it is hard to predict what will happen.
All I would say is - we have new owners, and a new management team, so lets give them chance to do what they say they intend to do, and not just judge them because of the lack of ambition shown perhaps by Bridgepoint.

 

[a300boy]

Manchester Airports massive expansion this summer will probably have an impact too !
I was looking at a local travel agents window in Yeadon yesterday and out of 18 holiday offers 15 were from Manchester so it is situation normal

 

[Britannia94]

Also looks like the new scanner for Hall B has been installed, the temporary removal of some of the windows near Hall B have been refitted. Guessing the next stage will be to reconnect all the baggage belt system back and bring it back into operation.

 

[White Heather]

Manchester Airports massive expansion this summer will probably have an impact too !
I was looking at a local travel agents window in Yeadon yesterday and out of 18 holiday offers 15 were from Manchester so it is situation normal

But that is often because the LBA holidays are already booked up and MAN has over capacity that they need to fill. It has always been that way. They don't advertise holidays in the windows that are already sold!

 

[a300boy]

For ever the optimist WH !
I would suggest they sell what they get the best commission on but have no proof of that.
Had that problem many years ago and had the mother of all arguments when they told me no flights to my destination operated from Leeds when I knew different.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Can you get an open return from Leeds (I assume) to Manchester airport for £20?

I was very roughly using figures to make my point but was basing it on a date in mid March as I was trying to find flights for myself and my colleagues. I should have remembered my previous experiences of this forum and provided specifics and for that I apologise. Hopefully, the following will help explain how I came to the conclusion I did.

Specifically, for an outbound on Tuesday 6th March on the first flight of the day and a return on Wednesday 7th March on the last flight of the day the fares were as follows:

LBA - SOU is £165.78
MAN - SOU is £64.98

The open anytime return ticket from Leeds to Manchester Airport is £38.30 and the open off peak ticket is £31.20.

As you can see, even using the most expensive train ticket would lead to a saving of £62.50.

For the record, the cheapest train ticket option for those dates ensuring that the first and last flight from MAN could be used would be £17.30. In this case, the saving would be £83.50.

For the four of us that need to travel, that equates to a single journey saving of £250-£334. Considering the number of flights our staff take during the course of the year, the savings to our company would be many thousands. I wonder how those sort of figures help businesses to decide where they are going to be based.

For a broader comparison, every single flight on those dates from and to LBA is significantly more expensive than those available from and to MAN and there is no combination of flights from LBA that would be cheaper than flight + train from MAN.

In the interest of fairness, I checked flights for this Friday using the first and last flights on the same routes. The return from MAN to SOU is £216.98. A return from LBA is £145.69. This appears to be an exception though - the other flight times from and to LBA are eye wateringly expensive and are all more expensive than the options from MAN, adding further weight to the argument on cost. I would suggest that, on the vast majority of routes that are duplicated from both LBA and MAN, the prices will be cheaper from MAN than from LBA. For example, KLM to Amsterdam on the same dates as above using the first and last flights of the day show that it is a staggering £122 cheaper to use MAN than LBA. I could go on but I think the point has been made.