Route Development & Rumours

I appreciate that the employment landscape has shifted fundamentally over the last decade. It is beyond doubt that business travel has declined, however, I remain convinced that a carrier like easyJet could successfully operate routes between Leeds and Edinburgh or Glasgow, as well as potential services to the South Coast or Bristol.

To make this more viable, pressure needs be applied to the Government to reduce or abolish Air Passenger Duty (APD) on domestic routes, or, at the very least, on journeys between cities where the rail alternative exceeds three hours.

When Air Passenger Duty (APD) was first introduced, planning was already well under way for High Speed 2 (HS2), with the intention that high-speed rail links between London, Leeds, and Manchester would eventually replace the need for domestic aviation. Given that these plans have since been scrapped or been scaled back, the case for scrapping APD on domestic flights has become significantly more compelling.

UK Domestic is dead. APD and high Taxes have killed it. Hence reason now the is only 1x regional UK airline flying Loganair.

Routes from Leeds to Edinburgh, Exeter and Bristol will never return whilst we have an hourly Cross Country train service. Glasgow is a quick one-stop via Edinburgh whilst I’m sure Aberdeen is linked daily by LNER.

The only realistic chances of domestic routes now is south towards Southampton, & Newquay which are not connected by direct train services and are a long drive. A London link has to be possible but that I’ll only work if it has a codeshare and inter-lining

Aviador said:

We need to see government policy change to kick start domestic air travel again. High speed rail is dead so the only way now is to promote aviation again. Aircraft will continue to become cleaner and more fuel efficient. The co2 argument will deminish as time goes by. #GetUKDomesticFlightsMoving

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I do agree with you particularly with flying from one provincial city to another. Cross Country Railways is overcrowded and expansive, and the motorways are clogged. However, I don't see any airline that will do it anymore. The UK has never had an effective transport policy.

pug said:

I agree, though I think as the traditional support for domestic routes - those with alternatives that don’t involve journeys on water - has dwindled due various reasons, the numbers don’t seem to stack up any more. Seeing it now with HUY-ABZ having been cut, and I know there are people in the Humber region who are now forced onto a lengthy rail or road journey for their commute but the harsh truth is that the number of those journeys had dwindled to a few hundred a month from a few thousand just ten years ago. It’s simply uneconomical now, hence all the regional carriers going to the wall over the last few years. Could the Government help support these companies? Possibly yes, but what they should really be doing is focusing on investment in transport that works and that will last, I’m thinking things like the LBA parkway station etc. Maybe some time down the line it will become possible to link LBA up with LHR again, that would make sense. Maybe if easyjet do open a base then they might see fit to add a domestic route here or there? But in the grand scheme of things I think the data of having regional airlines in the UK are all but over now sadly, even with the cleaner and potentially more efficient powerplants coming online.

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What should never have been cut was the rail link from the north to Heathrow. This was a HS2 proposition which was cut along with everything else.

lbaspotter said:

UK Domestic is dead. APD and high Taxes have killed it. Hence reason now the is only 1x regional UK airline flying Loganair.

Routes from Leeds to Edinburgh, Exeter and Bristol will never return whilst we have an hourly Cross Country train service. Glasgow is a quick one-stop via Edinburgh whilst I’m sure Aberdeen is linked daily by LNER.

The only realistic chances of domestic routes now is south towards Southampton, & Newquay which are not connected by direct train services and are a long drive. A London link has to be possible but that I’ll only work if it has a codeshare and inter-lining

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Newquay is having enough problems getting a London link re-established . The domestic air scene is much diminished , and the effective rail replacement isn't that good for many.

Aviador said:

This perspective implies that a rail journey exceeding five hours is a viable substitute for the efficient one hour flight services previously operated by  BMI and Eastern Airways from Leeds Bradford to Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Aberdeen.

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Unfortunately in these times I think it is. Edinburgh can be done in 3 hours with a direct train, Glasgow 4 1/2 hours with a 1 stop, Aberdeen 5 1/2 hours with a 1 stop. London is 2 1/2 hours direct.
I think the time now where the plane is a more competitive option compared to the train has increased and there's just not the airlines who'll do it. I think there needs to be either a significant distance, a significant leisure market, an obstacle like water or access to a major hub for a domestic route to work these days.

I’ve been thinking, when easyJet open a base, could they serve Newquay maybe 2X weekly? Apart from (by some miracle) Loganair to Southampton and an LHR link, that’s the only domestic route I can see re-starting

Aviador said:

I remain convinced that a carrier like easyJet could successfully operate routes between Leeds and Edinburgh or Glasgow, as well as potential services to the South Coast or Bristol.

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I think you only have to look at Manchester where they don't operate those routes to see that they don't really see it as viable.

YorkshireLad said:

I’ve been thinking, when easyJet open a base, could they serve Newquay maybe 2X weekly? Apart from (by some miracle) Loganair to Southampton and an LHR link, that’s the only domestic route I can see re-starting

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Can't see Easyjet doing LBA-NQY. They operated for some time LPL-NQY and don't do it now. They make more money doing Alicante and the likes instead.

There was a passenger loads chart created after Flybe went. It was quite revealing how low the loadings were on many of their routes. Its probably on this site somewhere.

Statto said:

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KLM 14,000 more seats from same number of flights, so presumably bigger a/c on some flights

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I have searching KLM flights and all LBA/AMS flights are scheduled to be on EMB195.E2

While I understand the focus on station to station transit times, @Jerry , looking at the headline three hour journey only tells half the story. In reality, the door to door experience for many travellers, particularly those not living within walking distance of a major city centre hub often makes the airport a far more efficient and less stressful starting point.

When you factor in the persistent unreliability of the UK rail network, frequent industrial action, and the extortionate cost of turn up and go rail fares, domestic aviation suddenly looks a lot more attractive. Also relying on a single mode of transport creates a functional monopoly that keeps prices high and leaves the North vulnerable whenever the West Coast or East Coast Main Lines face disruption.

By maintaining a punitive level of Air Passenger Duty on these routes, the Government is effectively penalising regional businesses and arguably widening the productivity gap between London and the rest of the UK.

Reintroducing a carrier like easyJet on a route like Leeds to Edinburgh wouldn't just be about competing with the 10:00 AM rail service, it would be about restoring consumer choice, driving down travel costs through healthy competition, and ensuring our regional infrastructure isn't entirely dependent on a rail system that is currently struggling to meet demand.

EasyJet does not operate MAN-EDI, an unserved route, so I really cannot see LBA-EDI happening. The reason at LBA is the same as at MAN: lack of demand.

Aviador said:

particularly those not living within walking distance of a major city centre hub often makes the airport a far more efficient and less stressful starting point.

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Everyone is different. For me it takes 20 minutes to get to Leeds train station and 30 minutes to LBA. Train and plane both have thier advantages and disadvantages. No security screening for the train for instance also much more frequency. I can only speak for myself but I don't find the train anymore stressful than taking the plane unless there's multiple changes. 1 change not a problem and tbh if there was a choice between Easyjet and train on a route like Edinburgh I'd probably opt for the train and I'm an avgeek someone not an avgeek is going to look more at the train and see it as a better option. I just don't see such routes as being viable anymore sadly.

I have 2 sets of relatives in Edinburgh I'd certainly use it beats the 4 plus hours drive on a good run which is cheaper than 3 of us on the train.
The short 30/40 min flight is worth the cost over a train. Yes you have to factor 2 hour check in etc but I'd use it

A319 just for us 3 then

Each to their own!

And let's not forget that you could easily log in to the train Wi-Fi and do a few hours work on your laptop which you can't on a train. Less chance of a diversion due to fog and no security checks to contend with.

Bigman said:

And let's not forget that you could easily log in to the train Wi-Fi and do a few hours work on your laptop which you can't on a train. Less chance of a diversion due to fog and no security checks to contend with.

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That assuming you are travelling for work but then your driver doesnt turn up, the trains cancelled and you're shuved onto a replacement bus, then six hours later....

There are as many cons for using the train as there are for flying, the only thing the stands out that is different is the extortionate and unnecessary APD.

Aviador said:

the only thing the stands out that is different is the extortionate and unnecessary APD

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Domestic APD though isn't that extortionate if I remember correctly it's around £6 a flight? for economy but if it was got rid of or reduced would we really see routes like Aberdeen-LeedsBradford return?

Jerry said:

Everyone is different. For me it takes 20 minutes to get to Leeds train station and 30 minutes to LBA. Train and plane both have thier advantages and disadvantages. No security screening for the train for instance also much more frequency. I can only speak for myself but I don't find the train anymore stressful than taking the plane unless there's multiple changes. 1 change not a problem and tbh if there was a choice between Easyjet and train on a route like Edinburgh I'd probably opt for the train and I'm an avgeek someone not an avgeek is going to look more at the train and see it as a better option. I just don't see such routes as being viable anymore sadly.

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Its not about point to point. Its about connections

Seasider said:

I have searching KLM flights and all LBA/AMS flights are scheduled to be on EMB195.E2

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Starting when?

LBAYORKIE said:

Its not about point to point. Its about connections

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Most regional flying is about point to point though. It's only flights to Heathrow and maybe Gatwick and Manchester that have onward connections more so with Heathrow. Routes like LBA-ABZ are mostly about point 2 point.

LBAYORKIE said:

Its not about point to point. Its about connections


Starting when?

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Lots of Embraer 190 & Embraer 195-E2's in the schedule from next weekend running up until around early July. The KLM mainline fleet gets redirected to flying mainly sun routes so we start to see lots of Embraer 175's appearing during Peak Summer when business flying is relatively low. Then the Embraer 195-E2's restart to appear from August Bank Holiday onwards..

When LBA were actively courting Loganair, one of the routes they mentioned was ABZ so clearly they see it as having potential. Maybe Loganair didn't, or maybe they did but saw other other airports as having greater money making potential than LBA. There is clearly more demand for domestic routes to airports further North and further South. LBAs location in the centre of the UK seems to work against it. The presence of MAN, gobbling up what demand there is, makes it very hard to attract any airline unless the route involves crossing water.

LBAYORKIE said:

Its not about point to point. Its about connections


Starting when?

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Klm 195.E2 start from 29 March and I have checked various dates to the end of June