Route Development & Rumours

[Finger66]

I don’t get this “ I wouldn’t like to see Wizz at LBA”. Surely any new carrier and routes are to be welcomed. LBA don’t seem stupid at offering silly incentives - why should they when there is such a great catchment area so any new airlines at LBA will realise the potential - or at least they would be stupid not to. I also agree TK would be a perfect addition. However that Terminal, and extra stands now need sorting ASAP. I am expecting some positives news to come - albeit nothing too major - for now at least!

 

[752]

Wizz, Ryanair & easyjet all operate from LPL/LTN/LGW yes some different routes but competition / market expansion is not something any are afraid off, im sure they would fit into LBA just fine

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I don’t get this “ I wouldn’t like to see Wizz at LBA”. Surely any new carrier and routes are to be welcomed. LBA don’t seem stupid at offering silly incentives - why should they when there is such a great catchment area so any new airlines at LBA will realise the potential - or at least they would be stupid not to. I also agree TK would be a perfect addition. However that Terminal, and extra stands now need sorting ASAP. I am expecting some positives news to come - albeit nothing too major - for now at least!

Looking at what Wizz Air offering from DSA they would only dilute the market from LBA as opposed to add anything. Krakow would suddenly have 3 carriers on, 2 of which would offer 'ultra' fares potentially pushing the 3rd off (Jet2). Ryanair offering 5 weekly LBA Krakow flights alone this winter. Jet2 was planning 2 a week.

Gdnask, Warsaw, Wroclaw and Vilnius are all offered with Ryanair and do quite well. Is there a market for both carriers? Probably not. So again why would you want them diluting a market and potentially make Ryanair up sticks and move. There is only 2 other routes that are not served that could be open for Wizz Air to serve.

What else does Wizz Air offer? From a name very few people, apart from those in the aviation industry or close to Doncaster, know. They don't offer something we need in terms of our gaping city market (Madrid, Lisbon, Milan, Venice, Berlin, Stockholm/Copenhagen), they'll dilute any beach market which again will push a carrier to reduce it's frequency offering or cut the route as it becomes unsustainable to fight against each other.

Do I want to see Wizz at LBA? Absolutely not. For reasons above they don't offer anything and quite frankly would be a shame to see them in the airport especially if it meant, which it would quite easily do so, we see a reduction from Ryanair.

Do I want to see Ryanair offer more, with more aircraft, domestic link to Belfast, more city destinations, more Eastern European offering, more sun beach routes throughout summer (Turkey anyone)? Absolutely.

 

[Finger66]

There is a flip side to the Ryanair argument here. That being they are notoriously unpredictable and can and do take their bat home at a moments notice. So if Wizz don’t come and FR do as above, what does that leave us with? What would be good is if Wizz could op from other places currently unserved in Eastern Europe. Anyway let’s see as we are all guessing without being in the know, but as ever been some good healthy debate on the subject and long may that continue.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

There is that flip argument. If you however remove covid; the max delays, LBA has been pretty good to them and continues to do so. I've heard its one of the bases that Ryanair are very happy with. The size could be bigger from a airport fan boy point of view; but if they are happy as they are then I'm quite content.

 

[White Heather]

Let's just remember that the people who run LBA know their business. They know the passenger figureson each route, and have data showing demand. They know which routes can take two operators and competition. They talk to new airlines, including the likes of Wizz, but also to Ryanair. They know the likely impact of a new carrier. They also know that competition can often lead to reduced prices and generate more demand..And that it can go the other way too.

So, let's just leave the airport to make the decisions. LBA have wanted Wizz for years, despite the Ryanair base. That suggests that they see potential for both to operate side by side. There's been lots of suggestions in the past about LBA being too reliant on Jet2 and Ryanair, and what a disaster it would be if one left. Now there is talk of Wizz and people are saying they are not wanted and it's better to rely on Ryanair!

Any new carrier is to be welcomed. Some said Monarch basing at LBA would damage Jet2. They didn't. Ryanair might give up some Eastern European routes to Wizz, retain their base, and introduce new routes instead that we dont currently have, and be happy to do so. We dont know. Just leave the airport guys to sort it. They know the business. We dont!

 

[ChrisBBB]

Let's just remember that the people who run LBA know their business. They know the passenger figureson each route, and have data showing demand. They know which routes can take two operators and competition. They talk to new airlines, including the likes of Wizz, but also to Ryanair. They know the likely impact of a new carrier. They also know that competition can often lead to reduced prices and generate more demand..And that it can go the other way too.

So, let's just leave the airport to make the decisions. LBA have wanted Wizz for years, despite the Ryanair base. That suggests that they see potential for both to operate side by side. There's been lots of suggestions in the past about LBA being too reliant on Jet2 and Ryanair, and what a disaster it would be if one left. Now there is talk of Wizz and people are saying they are not wanted and it's better to rely on Ryanair!

Any new carrier is to be welcomed. Some said Monarch basing at LBA would damage Jet2. They didn't. Ryanair might give up some Eastern European routes to Wizz, retain their base, and introduce new routes instead that we dont currently have, and be happy to do so. We dont know. Just leave the airport guys to sort it. They know the business. We dont!

Agree with this. 99% agree.
With the possible exception of Belfast - but still difficult (suicidal?) to turn away operators.
Point being I’m not entirely convinced they are too bothered re demand / saturation numbers if an airline wants to bring in custom

 

[Jerry]

Gdnask, Warsaw, Wroclaw and Vilnius are all offered with Ryanair and do quite well. Is there a market for both carriers?

So where do all the passengers that fly with Wizz go too? If the offering isn't at LBA they'll have to find flights from other airports.

 

[Coathanger16]

The only airport less than 50 miles from LBA is DSA and they dont go there. MAN is nearer 60 from Leeds by road, not that it makes any difference. The only thing I will say is Emirates is an airline that our previous CEO at LBA mentioned as an airline looking at LBA once we had the new terminal. We're not getting that now so it's unlikely we will get Emirates either, but never say never.

It was less than 50 miles in a straight line, but why quibble over 10 miles, the point remains the same.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

So where do all the passengers that fly with Wizz go too? If the offering isn't at LBA they'll have to find flights from other airports.

Doncaster was filled through Eastern Europeans going home from veg and fruit picking. LBA is a mix of everything. LBA has a bigger draw for business also as opposed to Doncaster. Wizz filled that mission of transporting workers to/fro. I’d like to see their loads now and their LF. CAA happily provide this.

But my point remains the same. There is a limited market and all Wizz do is dilute that market with fares that are unsustainable and then we may end up with no Ryanair. It’s a firm no to wizz from me.

 

[Jerry]

Doncaster was filled through Eastern Europeans going home from veg and fruit picking.

Not just seasonal workers there'll be a lot of VFR traffic as well. A lot of Eastern Europeans live around that area and use Wizz to visit home. So they'll have to fly from somewhere if they want to go home. Considering the size of Yorkshire population wise I'd be surprised if LBA wasn't able to sustain both Ryanair and Wizz on Eastern European routes.

 

[White Heather]

It was less than 50 miles in a straight line, but why quibble over 10 miles, the point remains the same.

I did say 'not that it makes any difference' so not really a quibble. Passengers don't travel in straight lines though and so getting to MAN from over here by road can be far more difficult than it might seem and that certainly can make a difference. By train is also often unreliable. These are facts that airlines overlook when deciding that MAN is close enough to serve this side if the Pennines.

Post automatically merged: Sep 22, 2022

Doncaster was filled through Eastern Europeans going home from veg and fruit picking. LBA is a mix of everything. LBA has a bigger draw for business also as opposed to Doncaster. Wizz filled that mission of transporting workers to/fro. I’d like to see their loads now and their LF. CAA happily provide this.

But my point remains the same. There is a limited market and all Wizz do is dilute that market with fares that are unsustainable and then we may end up with no Ryanair. It’s a firm no to wizz from me.

Except that LBA have just re-negotiated an extended operational contract with Ryanair, who are here for the long term. In my view, Ryanair are more likely to see off Wizz (if they came) than the other way around.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Lets look at the positives here, from what i can see there is the possibility of a wizz base at LBA, TUI operating more flights from LBA due to the possible closer of DSA (sad news regarding dsa though) a pakistan route (numerous airlines mentioned inc yes IPS!) and the one id like to see is turkish to istanbul.
So surely one of these must occur in the near future, im fairly positive at the moment plus LBA is performing very well again with almost back to normal pre covid levels.

 

[AT3]

I did say 'not that it makes any difference' so not really a quibble. Passengers don't travel in straight lines though and so getting to MAN from over here by road can be far more difficult than it might seem and that certainly can make a difference. By train is also often unreliable. These are facts that airlines overlook when deciding that MAN is close enough to serve this side if the Pennines.

Post automatically merged: Sep 22, 2022

Except that LBA have just re-negotiated an extended operational contract with Ryanair, who are here for the long term. In my view, Ryanair are more likely to see off Wizz (if they came) than the other way around.

DSA is probably a cautionary tale in regards to 'contracts' with airlines - airlines and airports do occasionally fall out and end up in loggerhead situations - contracts don't always necessarily tie in an airline to an airport even if the intention is for long term partnerships. Most contracts these days tend to be pricing structures only with no concrete commitment to provide the capacity (naturally there may be some commercial clawback for capacity not delivered but it wont tie anyone in). LBA could be just as vulnerable as DSA in the long term if the latter does survive.

I'm aware most would think it unthinkable but 'what if' Jet2 decided that growth east of the Pennines would be best centred at DSA instead of LBA/EMA? For an airline obsessed with product, especially on the outbound they may at some point see an opportunity to own their own airport experience in a facility that at present is good and has easy scalability. Take away just that one airline and LBA is suddenly the size of DSA and perhaps just as vulnerable as DSA is now.

Capacity scale is the only thing that matters these days in UK airports, and this can still move around and has the capability to shock. At the end of the day, passengers will travel however long it takes to make the connection to the flight they have chosen.

 

[752]

Yes there is 5 Wizz & Ryan destinations that cross over, however with Warsaw, Wizz fly to the primary airport, much more preferred, who's to say they would operate the same destinations? Wizz's eastern Europe network is massive, some may cross over but stand out new routes they could bring in is Sofia, Bucharest. Cluj, Bacau, Varna, Katowice, Lodz, Kaunas, Athens to name a few..

 

[Fat Phelan]

Hi,

Regarding Turkey and a wish-list for operators, would Pegasus fit the bill? Wonder if LBA has spoken to them? Ive flown them a few times to SAW and yes they're not full-service more low-cost but they were decent. Lots of industry over on Asian side of Istanbul, access from the European side can be a pain. SAW is a bit of a dump but would the lower cost profile of Pegasus fit LBA? Although the connections on TK are pretty amazing and TK good airline...and very nice food!

Thanks

 

[HX3]

One of the key gaps in network that Wizz could plug with no risk to other carriers is Romania. Cluj-Napoja, Iasi, Bucharest for example and Kosice for Slovakia, these are routes from other bases that could work well from Yorkshire, and contrary to popular opinion not all Eastern Europeans work in the fields, many work in service industries and banking, of which there is plenty in West Yorkshire, so these routes could work well. What would be good though is the Middle East that they serve from European bases, a stretch perhaps from the UK, but totally doable - Kuwait from Man is on a A320, so why not Wizz from Lba?

 

[752]

Wizz also making moves on Abu Dhabi, A321NEO? think we are getting ahead of ourselves but its not impossible. Also Bucharest is a big tourist market, like HX3 said its not just farming etc filling the flights.

 

[markietg]

Being a supporter of LBA is like waiting for a bus….nothing, then 3 come at once! TUI, Wizz and ….

 

[ex_crew]