Route Development & Rumours

[Silvercity]

Something to consider is that Lufthansa will be looking for a decent number of connecting passengers on a particular route before launching a new service.

Whilst Leeds has Aer Lingus to Dublin and KLM to Amsterdam, Liverpool has been without a connection to a European and/or UK hub in over a decade now.

A quick look at available seats for next week shows that from LBA, EI & KL have just over 4600 seats available, whereas at LPL, LH only has just under 500 seats available.

Simply put, at Liverpool there is no direct competition to Lufthansa flights, whereas at Leeds there are already 2 airlines competing for connecting passengers.

The reason LH is doing well from Liverpool is, no competition from Easyjet or Ryanair on point to point to Frankfurt, no other hub airline, when KLM tried , Easyjet jumped on them. They were the incumbent and known better than KLM in the Liverpool City Region ( You could argue if KLM had linked Liverpool years ago like other regional centres, it would have been different), plus Liverpool is known worldwide, its famous, so Lufthansa are tapping into this, bringing in inbound tourists. The service is to go daily except Saturday in March. I suggest the best way forward is double daily, and not addition of KLM.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Please don't take what i am about to say as derogatory, or an insult to LBA, but could it be due to the terminal facilities? The reason I mention this, is a comparison with BHX. When I first started visiting BHX, the original 1930's terminal (along with several tagged on extensions) was in service. Then in the mid 1980's, a new terminal was opened on the eastern side of the airport. Immediately, Air France, Lufthansa and Swissair launched daily services. I remember a quote from Swissair along the lines of 'we have long wanted to serve Birmingham, but we didn't want our passengers to experience the outdated facilities of the old terminal'. Could something similar be the case at LBA?
I'm not very familiar with LBA, but have been looking it up online. One thing from photos, that puzzles me is that several stands at the terminal seem to be used for vehicle parking or have buildings constructed on them whilst aircraft are parked hundreds of metres away (surely the wrong way round).
I'm also aware (from posts here), that plans for a new terminal were turned down and so, further redevelopment of the current terminal is the only option. I totally agree that LBA, it's passengers and airlines would benefit and deserve a new modern, purpose designed terminal giving greater efficiency as well as being more environmentally sustainable.
Just my thoughts.

Regarding our current terminal, the airport management can try and improve it however much they want but it wont make any difference, it will always have that outdated shape and due to the safety aspect the internal structure can not be altered much,
Whats that saying, you cant polish a...!
This is what we are seeing here unfold, until leeds has a proper brand new terminal the likes of LH will not be seen at LBA.
On the plus side we are seeing good growth at LBA from current airlines plus we were given tui and wizz from dsa, but we just need to move upto the next level, this can only be achieved thru vastly improved infrastructure.

 

[Statto]

This is what we are seeing here unfold, until leeds has a proper brand new terminal the likes of LH will not be seen at LBA.

Why do LH care about the shape of the terminal ? Where are you getting these “facts“ from ?

 

[A400]

What about Eurowings on a route to Düsseldorf? There a more lowcost arm to Lufthansa It use to work quite well for flybe from what I’ve seen on here. They’d be a nice addition to LBA.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Why do LH care about the shape of the terminal ? Where are you getting these “facts“ from ?

I would of thought after a few decades its pretty obvious now why LBA does not attract more airlines and routes esp the flag carriers. The airport has a bad stigma within the industry and the public are very aware of what the airport is like, you only have to ask people what they think of LBA and the usual negative comments will be made.
Ok a redesign of the current 60s terminal may help a little but until a PROPER terminal is constructed LH, IB etc will just not entertain us, its as simple as that. People need to wake up to this fact!
It is a funny situation because the airport is growing with current operators expanding, altho in some cases not to the level as at other airports (eg a new jet2 route will always be tried at MAN first then LBA) plus we more or less have all the donny flights with us now, but we need to get to the next level (eg LH announcing LBA first then say LPL) we are always the last to get a new route, its always been like that for decades, the reason is infrastructure and stigma.

 

[LBA787]

I’m holding out for some positivity in 2023 - BA or TK for me are the absolute bullseye targets!

Additionally, February marks 20 years of the Jet2.com operation (40 years of Channex). I’m sure a fair few of you, like me remember watching G-CELS make the inaugural LS201 AMS flight on that clear February morning. I’m quite convinced the anniversary won’t slip by without something special planned.

 

[Finger66]

@LBA4EVER it wasn’t for LBA’s want of trying regarding a new terminal, it was politicians that ultimately scuppered that. We are still not seeing any evidence from you that supports your argument that LH and IB et al will not come to LBA due to the current terminal. LBA must know something in respect that cancelling the new terminal extension to avoid further capacity increase delays by revamping and extending the current terminal is going to provide some return. Now whether that is continued increase from incumbent airlines and/or new airlines coming to the party (2024 has been mooted) then time will tell. We are all entitled to our opinions but I am sorry to say @LBA4EVER you are once again sounding like a stuck record with no actual evidence or facts to support your argument. You say you want LBA to do well so why not get fully behind our airport and encourage what can only be exciting times ahead

 

[Coathanger16]

Can we please put the terminal argument to bed now - there are airports in Africa that are barely more than four walls and a roof with a runway nearby that 5* airlines such as Qatar fly to. No airbridges; steps and buses to stands; minimal or non existent business class facilities, yet they still fly there.

As long as an airline thinks a route works economically, and the airport can handle the aircraft the airline wants to use, at the time of day the airline wants to fly, they will launch the route.

If a new terminal is so key to securing new airlines and routes, why did the airport management abandon it? No denying there were external factors and bodies that were frustrating the process, but at the end of the day it was the airport who decided to no longer pursue the new terminal.

 

[White Heather]

The shape of the terminal building is irrelevant, it's the use of the space inside that matters, and how much there is.

The new extension will vastly increase the space for arrivals at a stroke, enhancing facilities way beyond what's there now, whilst also adding significantly to the space available in departures, including additional much needed gates. The transfer of arrivals out of the existing building will also significantly increase available space in there, improving the flow of passengers and avoiding current crossover of arriving and departing passengers completely as they will use opposite ends of the terminal complex.

LBA just need to get the thing built!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I'm just hoping they will increase the height of the ceilings and open things up considerably. Currently the overall feel is somewhat claustrophobic.

 

[White Heather]

I'm just hoping they will increase the height of the ceilings and open things up considerably. Currently the overall feel is somewhat claustrophobic.

That's impossible in the existing building, which is of a poured concrete slab construction. The slab is where it is. You cant make it higher unless you knock it down and start again. Same with all those supporting pillars. They are there for keeps and can't be removed. Only made slimmer, which they are doing by removing the casings that previously made them appear bigger than they really are.

They are using up lighters in the check in hall which lightens everything up and gives the impression of a higher ceiling. No doubt the extension will have much higher ceilings

 

[LBA4EVER]

@LBA4EVER it wasn’t for LBA’s want of trying regarding a new terminal, it was politicians that ultimately scuppered that. We are still not seeing any evidence from you that supports your argument that LH and IB et al will not come to LBA due to the current terminal. LBA must know something in respect that cancelling the new terminal extension to avoid further capacity increase delays by revamping and extending the current terminal is going to provide some return. Now whether that is continued increase from incumbent airlines and/or new airlines coming to the party (2024 has been mooted) then time will tell. We are all entitled to our opinions but I am sorry to say @LBA4EVER you are once again sounding like a stuck record with no actual evidence or facts to support your argument. You say you want LBA to do well so why not get fully behind our airport and encourage what can only be exciting times ahead

I dont need facts, its so obviously evident as to why we dont attract more carriers and routes to the airport.
The truth hurts im afraid sometimes. we have bad stigma because of our poor infrastructure and to a degree the location and weather at LBA. Thats the bottom line.

 

[Finger66]

Well if we are looking for facts to support any side to this discussion, 4mppa, Jet2, Ryanair, KLM and Wizz aren’t having issues with our infrastructure. We all know it’s far from perfect but there is so much good about it these days, which is about to get better.......

 

[LBA4EVER]

Well if we are looking for facts to support any side to this discussion, 4mppa, Jet2, Ryanair, KLM and Wizz aren’t having issues with our infrastructure. We all know it’s far from perfect but there is so much good about it these days, which is about to get better.......

Yes in one of my earlier posts i did mention about the increase in pax due to expansion from current airlines and wizz and tui starting ops from the airport(altho these were really given to us) so yes i do agree with yourself on that score, the airport is doing really well! But to get to the next level if u get me we really do need a proper terminal, extra apron space and the like. Surely you can see where im coming from?
You simply cannot change the current terminal in a big way due to how its constructed!

 

[Finger66]

I think we all get where you are coming from @LBA4EVER - after all you remind us often enough! The point I, and many others make, is that we are in effect stuck pretty much with what we have got now that the new terminal is a dead duck - which yes I agree would probably have been a game-changer. But LBA have looked at redesigning the original latest add-on to enhance customer experience as much as it's going to be possible with what we have. I really dont think they would be doing that if there werent plans afoot from some airlines. We will have to hope an improved terminal does entice the likes of LH and maybe AF amongst others

 

[LBA4EVER]

I think we all get where you are coming from @LBA4EVER - after all you remind us often enough! The point I, and many others make, is that we are in effect stuck pretty much with what we have got now that the new terminal is a dead duck - which yes I agree would probably have been a game-changer. But LBA have looked at redesigning the original latest add-on to enhance customer experience as much as it's going to be possible with what we have. I really dont think they would be doing that if there werent plans afoot from some airlines. We will have to hope an improved terminal does entice the likes of LH and maybe AF amongst others

I know where your coming from too and fully agree with most of your comments,overall the future is looking good at LBA id say.

 

[Finger66]

Yes it is considering what space and location we have to work with. Of course it’s far from perfect but as has been pointed out there are airports in the world far worse than LBA. Nothing wrong with any of us being greedy in wanting only the very best for LBA. If only we could have.....................

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I dont need facts, its so obviously evident as to why we dont attract more carriers and routes to the airport.
The truth hurts im afraid sometimes. we have bad stigma because of our poor infrastructure and to a degree the location and weather at LBA. Thats the bottom line.

You do need facts.

Fact 1) The continued coup in Government meant a government decision delayed the final decision on the terminal. That isn't the fault of the government but more the mafia media who govern this country.

Fact 2) It was LBA that retracted it and called time on the new terminal. Not the government.

Fact 3) Michael Gove is not anti levelling up - he's just commissioned the first coal mine for a while. As much as a despise the bloke he's a very effective minister.

The location could of been solved but anti-working class, pro woke, Anti-Leeds, Labour Scum MP's didn't want a road that would benefit the airport to extent but more the local community. These anti-working class, Anti-Leeds, pro woke, climate change religious worshipers who are scum continue to hold back this fantastic city and it's infrastructure.

The weather is the weather. You cannot help the topography of an airport and you cannot help in the weather that you receive. Every airport cannot help the weather it receive it's part and parcel of an airport. BRS does really well, similar catchment area in terms of wealth, and similar weather. Also similar topography. Only difference - BRS has a runway into wind.

 

[HX3]

Being positive, I think the extension will significantly improve our chances of legacy services. The arrivals experience is far from great, so a new purpose built arrivals area will improve that significantly.
As for the low ceilings, I don’t think these are an issue with imaginative lighting. Verona has high ceilings but was a God for shaken hovel in comparison to LBA. I also thought the central land side area at Schipol was dark and uninspiring for a large airport. Even our competition over the hill with the up stairs, down stairs experience for Pier B, doesn’t seam to put legacy carriers off.
So let’s be positive, there are plans in place, there are plenty of punters out there with LBA as their local airport; so hopefully once facilities are in place then carriers will come

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Being positive, I think the extension will significantly improve our chances of legacy services. The arrivals experience is far from great, so a new purpose built arrivals area will improve that significantly.
As for the low ceilings, I don’t think these are an issue with imaginative lighting. Verona has high ceilings but was a God for shaken hovel in comparison to LBA. I also thought the central land side area at Schipol was dark and uninspiring for a large airport. Even our competition over the hill with the up stairs, down stairs experience for Pier B, doesn’t seam to put legacy carriers off.
So let’s be positive, there are plans in place, there are plenty of punters out there with LBA as their local airport; so hopefully once facilities are in place then carriers will come

LBA has the feeling of a series of wide corridors connected by narrower ones. The ceiling height is the main thing that makes the building feel dated. The main departure hall used to have a high ceiling so maybe this could be reinstated when whatever is now above is relocated.