Route Development & Rumours

[Coathanger16]

I think they fly to Salzburg which is presumably further than Milan

I'd forgotten they fly to SZG as well but even then, by just over 100 miles, BGY is longer.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I'd forgotten they fly to SZG as well but even then, by just over 100 miles, BGY is longer.

Im not sure even a 737 8 has the range to fly Leeds-Dubai direct also I would speculate that a 737 10 would likely struggle to get off our runway if fully loaded/fuelled in anything less than good conditions, and even if it did it has even less range than a 737 8 (as has been mentioned previously)

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

The MAX10 has an increased capacity at the cost of a reduced range vs the MAX8, so my guess would be the latter.

The current longest route they fly in Europe is Dubai to Milan Bergamo, with a flight time on average of 6:30 operated by a MAX8 (for comparison, MAN from DXB is an average of 7:00).

Length of flight is irrelevant. It’s whether the MAX10’s will get out of LBA given the length of the aircraft, size of engines and landing gear height. I’ll post the video shortly.

With over 70 Boeing in service and 140 Boeing on order, it'd be quite a turnabout to switch to Airbus.

30 of which I would assume will replace the NGs. So 110 on order - 50 of which again are waiting on the regulator. So down to 60.

A321NEO gives fly Dubai extra range that quite frankly the Boeing Family cannot reach. It also opens up other markets, allows them to grow market share. I’d expect it within the year.

 

[White Heather]

I don't get why people think the MAX10 can't use LBA. Someone has already confirmed they can. The MAX10 may be bigger, but all MAXs have a larger wing area, and bigger, more powerful engines, so airfield performance should be good.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

So it can on paper. We all know most aircraft can on paper - the 787, A330 NEO. Reality is very different for airlines. A Max 10 to Dubai will struggle.

 

[LBA4EVER]

This vid sums up some of my own worrying views on the max 8 and 10.
The maxs are simply over engineered to deal with the problems of an old airframe, should of been a clean sheet with a totally new 737 and 757 as well!

 

[Len Fish]

Boeing has plenty of orders for the Max series so it’s a bit of a stretch to say it’s failed. The airframe showing it’s age maybe but Boeing have managed to update it to keep pace with new aviation developments but probably the last time they can do this before an entirely new aircraft will have to be developed.

 

[Aviador]

I still don't like the aircraft and I will try to avoid it when booking flights in the future.

Back to Leeds Route Development.

 

[Easy289]

LBA route development?? Is there any????

 

[Finger66]

I believe so however the phrase appears to be “patience is a virtue”. Whilst I don’t know anything for definite, reading between numerous lines I do understand that there will be some positive sets (yes plural) of news coming. Whether those turn out to imminent or we just have to wait a little longer, then we shall see

 

[Statto]

Anyone paying close attention to the news this week about Jet2 at LPL and Easy at BHX will have spotted that they were announced almost a year before flying will start. And before being announced there will have been months, maybe years of negotiations, legal contracts to be drawn up before the deal was signed. None of this takes place in public and all of it is closely guarded with non-disclosure agreements in place between the airline, airport and legal advisors. It’s what makes all this repeated nonsense about LBAs infrastructure and apron space not just repetitive but out of touch with reality. The bosses of EasyJet or whoever aren’t just going to pop up and say ‘ey up, we’ve got a few a320s we don’t know what to do with next week, it’s a pity you don’t have a few more stands, we’d have loved to have based them here’ For big commitments like basing and all the associated costs and risks, airlines will be planning and in negotiations now for 2025, 2026 and probably beyond that. And if LBA is part of those negotiations they will be trying to get a firm enough commitment from an airline that they can push ahead with raising the funding to start the development work.

 

[Starflyer]

I don't get why people think the MAX10 can't use LBA

This thing is absolutely not a 757. The 757 ran a 113t max take-off weight with two engines at 43,000lbs thrust rating each. It's a monster of an aeroplane. The MAX10 is a lighter aircraft at 92t but with two engines at 28,000lbs thrust rating each. You've got 80% of the weight to shift but with only 65% of the power.

Although I'm sure you will be able to operate a MAX10 into LBA, I'll be very surprised if it can manage a departure at MTOW with a full load and fuel for an 8-hour sector off an obstacle-limited departure on 32...

 

[LBAYORKIE]

This thing is absolutely not a 757. The 757 ran a 113t max take-off weight with two engines at 43,000lbs thrust rating each. It's a monster of an aeroplane. The MAX10 is a lighter aircraft at 92t but with two engines at 28,000lbs thrust rating each. You've got 80% of the weight to shift but with only 65% of the power.

Although I'm sure you will be able to operate a MAX10 into LBA, I'll be very surprised if it can manage a departure at MTOW with a full load and fuel for an 8-hour sector off an obstacle-limited departure on 32...

Your last para sums it up - I agree 100pc.

 

[gulftraveller]

As regards FlyDubai, it is not just a question of range but rather whether parent company Emirates would allow them to encroach on the highly lucrative UK market. Traditional wisdom was that they would not but with new aircraft, that might change. In some countries, Eastern Europe has some examples, both FlyDubai and Emirates operate to the same airports, the former for point to point traffic, the latter for interline connections.

The problem for FlyDubai to operate to UK, even with a Max 10, is that, because of the distance, the difference in air fares between the two carriers, when baggage and in flight services are factored into the FDB price, would be small and offer little or no advantage over Emirates. It is then a question of whether you want to fly 7h30 in a 737 or an A380.

 

[pug]

Anyone paying close attention to the news this week about Jet2 at LPL and Easy at BHX will have spotted that they were announced almost a year before flying will start. And before being announced there will have been months, maybe years of negotiations, legal contracts to be drawn up before the deal was signed. None of this takes place in public and all of it is closely guarded with non-disclosure agreements in place between the airline, airport and legal advisors. It’s what makes all this repeated nonsense about LBAs infrastructure and apron space not just repetitive but out of touch with reality. The bosses of EasyJet or whoever aren’t just going to pop up and say ‘ey up, we’ve got a few a320s we don’t know what to do with next week, it’s a pity you don’t have a few more stands, we’d have loved to have based them here’ For big commitments like basing and all the associated costs and risks, airlines will be planning and in negotiations now for 2025, 2026 and probably beyond that. And if LBA is part of those negotiations they will be trying to get a firm enough commitment from an airline that they can push ahead with raising the funding to start the development work.

Whilst what you’re saying may well be true, ‘discussions’ as some like to call it will be pretty constant. For instance Jet2 will have been in ‘discussions’ with LPL for years, but the actual decision to go in there next may have been as soon as a couple of months if that.

Airports are always in talks with airlines. But airlines may not be interested at that time. So when they do decide there is a growth benefit of adding a new base they can be pretty swift in turning around ‘deals’, as the offers were probably already in place. Legal contracts are often cut and paste, with maybe a few local variations.

There is obviously long term planning involved, and there has to be a public lead in time in order to generate awareness and forward bookings. But airlines can be quite dynamic.

Obviously the situation with stand capacity at LBA isn’t just a case of investing the capital in the hard stands, but there are other stakeholders which must be considered - particularly when it would most likely involve a relocation of current business. Airline airport agreements do not always fall heavily in favour of the airline either. Perhaps at this moment it is not deemed appropriate to speculatively invest in new infrastructure, or perhaps LBA aren’t actively trying to court easyjet in any substantial base agreement at this time.

I think they may want to fill up the stands during the quieter periods at this moment, when the base operators are down route. It’s the best way to maximise use of current capacity. Airlines like Play, Lufthansa maybe even BA, Vueling or easyjet (non-base) is the target at the moment amongst other things.

Just my take on it. Growth has to be sustainable. Let’s not forget that Wizzair was a huge coup for the airport and has pushed up off peak movements and this was only a recent development.

 

[Statto]

Whilst what you’re saying may well be true, ‘discussions’ as some like to call it will be pretty constant. For instance Jet2 will have been in ‘discussions’ with LPL for years, but the actual decision to go in there next may have been as soon as a couple of months if that.

Airports are always in talks with airlines. But airlines may not be interested at that time. So when they do decide there is a growth benefit of adding a new base they can be pretty swift in turning around ‘deals’, as the offers were probably already in place. Legal contracts are often cut and paste, with maybe a few local variations.

There is obviously long term planning involved, and there has to be a public lead in time in order to generate awareness and forward bookings. But airlines can be quite dynamic.

I agree discussions are on-going. My point I suppose is that the airport management will have a pretty good view of the strength of those discussions, where they are in the pecking order and rough timelines.

It's also worth saying that airlines like Jet2 & Ryanair will probably be much more dynamic in terms of their plans for the airport, and that can be a potential headache for planning how to accommodate new airlines.

 

[lbaspotter]

Well, well.

I've had it firmly debunked today on twitter by one of LBA's management team that Play is an already done deal..

So it remains to be seen if or not Play reapply for slots this coming winter 2023/24 season.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Oh the management team clearly don’t want to play ball….

 

[LBA4EVER]

Or was a done deal until the PLAY management saw these posts haha
Good news, makes total sense to open a route east of the pennines.

 

[White Heather]

Well, well.

I've had it firmly debunked today on twitter by one of LBA's management team that Play is an already done deal..

So it remains to be seen if or not Play reapply for slots this coming winter 2023/24 season.

Can you clarify - if the management team have firmly debunked a done deal with Play, that means they are saying there isn't one. That Play are NOT coming to LBA, or at least there is no agreement to do so. Is that what you are saying?

Frankly, knowing how they work, I would be amazed if they ever did anything other than to 'debunk' such rumours. It's highly unlikely they would ever confirm a deal until such time as the contracts are signed and a formal announcement is made.