Route Development & Rumours

[KARFA]

I seem to remember SAS did CPH for a short period, was it around 2016? I think it was using a CRJ900. Dropped after less that a year because of lack of aircraft I think, no idea how well the route was doing.

 

[HX3]

I don’t think it did very well due to flight times and lack of publicity. People are more mobile though nowadays, and more likely to take short breaks, so I do think routes that have failed previously, could be successful now with the right frequency, timings and price.

 

[White Heather]

I don’t think it did very well due to flight times and lack of publicity. People are more mobile though nowadays, and more likely to take short breaks, so I do think routes that have failed previously, could be successful now with the right frequency, timings and price.

It didn't help either that the route didn't operate through our peak season/summer holidays. Doomed to fail sadly.

 

[Finger66]

Yes just about everything was wrong with it to give it any chance of success. How many times have we said right equipment at the right times and frequency will unlock LBAs full potential. Our ever expanding incumbent, and new now, airlines are testament to that

 

[Statto]

I recall a senior manager from the airport speaking at a business in event in Leeds basically saying they tried to persuade SAS not to launch the route until they were able to offer better frequency and timings. In his view it wouldn’t work and the failure would ultimately make it more difficult to attract an operator who could make it work in the future.

 

[Bhowani]

HX3 ! Agreed: although Gardemoen (OSL) is a fine airport, and only 1 train stop from where I visit family,(we managed to keep BrownAir with its Gulfstream plane busy in circa 1985) It is a "trail" via AMS and takes all day in reality. Three cheers for the return of the lunchtime LBA/AMS timing! The new ferry from Tyne Commision Quay is due to come into service in 2026 so SAS/NA have time to get cracking. Oh, and Jet2 are trying with Flesland (Bergen) so there is hope !

Alt for Norge !

 

[HX3]

Godt gjort Bhowani, litt Norsk hei, hei Norge To be fair it is easier for me to see my Grandad in Spain, as he winters in Albir as Trondheim is baltic. So it’s cheaper and easier for everyone to fly to Alicante, but options to anywhere in Scandinavia would be a bonus for LBA.

 

[Finger66]

30 plus years ago Brown Air were filling there Gulfstream 1 to both Oslo (albeit mainly with Brown employees) and Frankfurt. With the way air travel has moved on and developed, plus with the connections available from FRA, absolutely no reason why the latter wouldn’t work from LBA, especially with LH

 

[Aviador]

The Mrs was in Franfurt a week or two ago and had to fly from Manchester. So annoying. This is the thing, give LBA the right aircraft, price and timings and routes will flourish. Give us the leftover pickings and they won't last.

 

[White Heather]

The Mrs was in Franfurt a week or two ago and had to fly from Manchester. So annoying. This is the thing, give LBA the right aircraft, price and timings and routes will flourish. Give us the leftover pickings and they won't last.

The same with my daughter too. Flew from MAN on LH. She had originally booked via AMS from LBA but her flight was cancelled by KLM due to restrictions at AMS, so she had no connection.

I followed her return flight on FR24. Her Flight was operated by a Germanwings A320. Right in front of it was a Lufthansa Embraer heading from FRA to LPL.

It's so frustrating that there's absolutely nothing to this side if the Pennines. It's like Yorkshire, despite having a huge catchment area, is invisible to some airlines.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The same with my daughter too. Flew from MAN on LH. She had originally booked via AMS from LBA but her flight was cancelled by KLM due to restrictions at AMS, so she had no connection.

I followed her return flight on FR24. Her Flight was operated by a Germanwings A320. Right in front of it was a Lufthansa Embraer heading from FRA to LPL.

It's so frustrating that there's absolutely nothing to this side if the Pennines. It's like Yorkshire, despite having a huge catchment area, is invisible to some airlines.

Having said that I reckon there are more destinations to connect with out of CDG.

FRA and CDG seem like 'no brainers' but there must be something we dont know or Im sure LBA would have secured services (by legacy/national carriers) on these routes by now.

 

[White Heather]

Having said that I reckon there are more destinations to connect with out of CDG.

Perhaps but the fact remains that LBA doesn't have a single regular scheduled service to Germany, having had them in recent years to Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin, Weeze and Munich.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Perhaps but the fact remains that LBA doesn't have a single regular scheduled service to Germany, having had them in recent years to Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin, Weeze and Munich.

Yes, its really strange. Its not a case that weve never had them, they have been tried but seem to have failed. Dusseldorf is particularly frustrating as Jet2 offered it for several years and then suddenly stopped (as they did with AMS). Makes you wonder what the real reason was and if it wasnt lack of demand why the route wasnt picked up by another airline. Given Jet2 were point to point and survived so long, think what LH or an airline with an interline agreement could achieve.

 

[White Heather]

Yes, its really strange. Its not a case that weve never had them, they have been tried but seem to have failed. Dusseldorf is particularly frustrating as Jet2 offered it for several years and then suddenly stopped (as they did with AMS). Makes you wonder what the real reason was and if it wasnt lack of demand why the route wasnt picked up by another airline. Given Jet2 were point to point and survived so long, think what LH or an airline with an interline agreement could achieve.

Flybe operated DUS for several years, successfully, and I understood that Jet2 had good loads before them, and to Hamburg, and in Spain to Valencia and Madrid. They just seemed to turn their back on such routes as the holidays business grew and their focus changed to package holidays.

Going way back, we had regular flights to DUS in the late 50s and early 60s too, BKS operating the route.

 

[lbaspotter]

I heard a rumour not long back that Jet2's Leeds - Berlin could be making a more permanent year round appearance as it's an
Idea short sector to keep the B737-300 fleet busy. Copenhagen was mentioned too.

Instead of just the 4/5 weeks it currently runs in November - December for the Xmas market.

 

[Coathanger16]

Perhaps but the fact remains that LBA doesn't have a single regular scheduled service to Germany, having had them in recent years to Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin, Weeze and Munich.

If its any consolation, over here at BHX we've gone from 7 German routes down to 3, and even those have only recovered about 60%.

Out of the largest countries in Europe, Germany is probably doing the worst across the UK down 26% on April 2019. Similarly France is down 15% and Italy down 12%.

At the other end of the spectrum, Portugal is up by 6%, Greece up by 44% and Turkey up by 57%.

Flybe was pretty ideal for those UK to smaller German markets. Not sure who could take them up now.

 

[David_itl]

I would say Loganair would be a good bet but I don't particularly want to see them stretch themselves too thin. The economics of such routes would be best suited for ATR72 but I'm sure that people would equite propeller driven aircraft as coming out of the Jurassic period, especially for a travel time of greater than 1 hour. Thus this is where airlines like Wizz Air and Ryanair in all their guises) can spoil regional airports who may want to see consistent hgh frequency and timies (4+ week) to bigger cities rather then 2 or 3 weekly operating at various times of the day.

 

[White Heather]

I would say Loganair would be a good bet but I don't particularly want to see them stretch themselves too thin. The economics of such routes would be best suited for ATR72 but I'm sure that people would equite propeller driven aircraft as coming out of the Jurassic period, especially for a travel time of greater than 1 hour. Thus this is where airlines like Wizz Air and Ryanair in all their guises) can spoil regional airports who may want to see consistent hgh frequency and timies (4+ week) to bigger cities rather then 2 or 3 weekly operating at various times of the day.

It's always puzzled me why Loganair, whose CEO once told me he was LBAs greatest fan (he was about 16 at the time), and who bemoaned the lack of services from here, constantly overlook the obvious opportunities from LBA. They have the right type of aircraft to build routes that are unserved, and make them their own.

Of all the CEOs out there, Jonathan Hinkles knows what potential there is here, yet, LBA appears to be the airport he and his airline overlooks constantly. He once asked to be admitted to the original membership of the Support Group. I wanted him in, knowing him well, in but I was outvoted by the other founders, because he was seen as too outspoken and likely to upset airport the management whose support we needed...this was because he had recently contacted the airport director at the time to tell him where he was going wrong. It was clear then he was a smart kid, and going places in aviation.

Perhaps there was a fall out with LBA management back around 2014 (at a guess) when they axed our Glasgow service, but the ownership of the airport has changed since then, as have the personnel. Time to kiss and make up.

Come on Jonathan. Sort it out and come to LBA with a couple of based aircraft doing the unserved European routes, and if you do, I promise that you will become an honorary member of the Airport Support Group!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Again we keep having this debate on why no obvious airlines want to start services from LBA... Infrastructure and stigma!!
But this will change once the terminal improvements begin, still though things are looking good at LBA and will get a whole lot better im sure!

 

[White Heather]

Again we keep having this debate on why no obvious airlines want to start services from LBA... Infrastructure and stigma!!
But this will change once the terminal improvements begin, still though things are looking good at LBA and will get a whole lot better im sure!

We are talking here about an airline that lands on a beach in Scotland, that happily operates to the likes of Teesside, or Norwich, where the infrastructure isn't exactly great. Your very frequent point about infrastructure has some merit (despite it being boringly predictable and frequent) but we are talking Loganair, not Emirates! They are not an airline that would snub LBA because it's facilities don't measure up to their high standards!