Route Development & Rumours

[LBA4EVER]

The size of a city is determined by its city centre and all its inner urban density areas (eg headingley, seacroft, harehills, armley) its urban sprawl outwards in other words, On a map these would be the dark areas until you get to the rural bits. So in the case of leeds this would be pretty much right out to the outer ring road although there are parts that just slightly overlap ie horsforth and pudsey. This is the true scale of a city! So in the case of Manchester this would be out to the M60 motorway because beyond the m60 your clearly out the inner city areas and into small satellite towns with also different postcodes.
The total population within the leeds outer ring road is roughly 550-600k but when you add in the further out places such as yeadon and garforth it adds upto roughly 760-800k, but when it comes to its cc and and the inner urban area leeds is the 3rd largest city, also to note the city centre of leeds does actually look like a modern grand city simple due to its large city looking streets, grand architecture and large financial presence with tall buildings and the like, it just has that feel. Leeds makes other smaller cities like Sheffield, nottingham and newcastle look more like very large towns. But within england the 4 most important centres are leeds, Birmingham, Manchester and of course London.
We now just need an airport to match our cities status but hopefully this will start to come now.

 

[Aviador]

Yawn! The size of Manchester vs Leeds or West Yorkshire is irrelevant really as you could or perhaps should include North Yorkshire in the catchment for LBA as they don't realistically have an alternative airport option unless your talking about long haul.

 

[KARFA]

I suspect you would be quicker heading to NCL if you are in North Yorkshire - and yes there are better flight options there, including long haul.

Fundamentally LBA is crippled by the infrastructure around it and will always underperform as a result in relation to the catchment area.

 

[gulftraveller]

The argument about diluting routes is a complex subject, especially for EK as one of its primary aims is to feed traffic into its super hub-spoke model, this is what Sir Tim Clarke mentioned last year,.....if Emirates, or Qatar for that matter wants to increase its 'golden egg' market share in the UK you have to grow the routes.... MAN has 3x daily A380 to Dubai, do we really think a once daily 777 over here will dent that.

Coathanger’s assessment is correct.

The question for EK would be, how many of the passengers travelling on an LBA-DXB route already travel with them from MAN or NCL. Would any gain justify the cost of having a second base? Never forget that airlines do not care how far their passengers travel to use their services.

 

[Finger66]

And that’s ultimately where KLM are laughing at LBA. For those that won’t or don’t want to travel, at least for destinations KLM serve that can’t be reached directly, other than perhaps EI to the USA then KLM it is. International air travel is though going to grow and those pax have to come from somewhere and I don’t doubt LBA has a part to play in that. Not saying that involves EK but expect other players we aren’t currently seeing

 

[Statto]

Coathanger’s assessment is correct.

The question for EK would be, how many of the passengers travelling on an LBA-DXB route already travel with them from MAN or NCL. Would any gain justify the cost of having a second base? Never forget that airlines do not care how far their passengers travel to use their services.

That's one of the questions, for sure. But the other two are

- how many passengers using an EK service between LBA and DXB to connect through to other destinations, would switch from other providers. Think of all the possible options a passenger has to travel on one-stop services to South East Asia, China, India, Australia, Africa etc. KLM from LBA, lots of connecting options from MAN. Lots of direct options if you are prepared to travel to London.

- and if some of these passengers do switch from existing EK services at say MAN, how much capacity does that free up to allow EK to win market share from competitors on their Manchester services.

 

[Aviador]

That's one of the questions, for sure. But the other two are

- how many passengers using an EK service between LBA and DXB to connect through to other destinations, would switch from other providers. Think of all the possible options a passenger has to travel on one-stop services to South East Asia, China, India, Australia, Africa etc. KLM from LBA, lots of connecting options from MAN. Lots of direct options if you are prepared to travel to London.

- and if some of these passengers do switch from existing EK services at say MAN, how much capacity does that free up to allow EK to win market share from competitors on their Manchester services.

I would look at this differently. The big three Middle Eastern airlines can carry on as things stand with little change to their current operation but if say Turkish or another airline comes in with a similar product then they are in trouble. All it will take is just one airline to do it and it will dilute the Manchester operation and offer significant choice to the Yorkshire customers wishing to travel further afield.

 

[White Heather]

Turkish subsidiary Anadolu Jet , which currently operates to STN in the UK, will, from March 24, become an independent low cost carrier known as AJet, and it is stated that they intend to expand within the UK. As direct competitions to Pegasus, AJet are perhaps LBAs best chance of getting the much needed direct route to Istanbul and it would be particularly good if they operate an interlining agreement with Turkish Airlines, their current owners . Right airline, right equipment? They operate A320/A320NEO, 737 MAX8 and a large fleet of 737 800 aircraft.

Fingers crossed?

 

[Finger66]

I am crossed lol

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I see Ethiopian have announced expansion into Europe, including an undisclosed new destination in the Northern UK.

 

[ChrisBBB]

I see Ethiopian have announced expansion into Europe, including an undisclosed new destination in the Northern UK.

I think that will be Edinburgh, I don’t think there is the market at LBA or Newcastle to compete with Manchester, but further north can tap in to Glasgow and Newcastle

 

[LBA787]

Turkish subsidiary Anadolu Jet , which currently operates to STN in the UK, will, from March 24, become an independent low cost carrier known as AJet, and it is stated that they intend to expand within the UK. As direct competitions to Pegasus, AJet are perhaps LBAs best chance of getting the much needed direct route to Istanbul and it would be particularly good if they operate an interlining agreement with Turkish Airlines, their current owners . Right airline, right equipment? They operate A320/A320NEO, 737 MAX8 and a large fleet of 737 800 aircraft.

Fingers crossed?

It really has to be TK for it to work. No half arsed stuff just a daily 737/320/321 to IST please.

 

[White Heather]

It really has to be TK for it to work. No half arsed stuff just a daily 737/320/321 to IST please.

Why? How do you know it won't work? AJet have the right equipment, could operate daily and could have code share with Turkish, who own them. It's no different to the likes of us having Aer Lingus Regional feeding their flights from DUB or KLM Cityhopper (instead of KLM mainline) on AMS.

 

[Coathanger16]

Why? How do you know it won't work? AJet have the right equipment, could operate daily and could have code share with Turkish, who own them. It's no different to the likes of us having Aer Lingus Regional feeding their flights from DUB or KLM Cityhopper (instead of KLM mainline) on AMS.

Only point I'd make is AJet/AnadoluJet serve the "smaller" Sabiha Gokcen airport in Istanbul not the main one that Turkish Airlines do, so whilst onwards connections are still available from Sabiha Gokcen, they're not as numerous as from Istanbul (Main).

 

[ls27]

One of my daughters flew to Sabiha Gokcen the other week from Man by Pegasus for onward connection to Dubai. A bit of a wait but the same airline on to the destination. So there was no problem with the smaller airport.

 

[LBA787]

Why? How do you know it won't work? AJet have the right equipment, could operate daily and could have code share with Turkish, who own them. It's no different to the likes of us having Aer Lingus Regional feeding their flights from DUB or KLM Cityhopper (instead of KLM mainline) on AMS.

It’s already been pointed out but they operate from different airports 40 miles apart.

A similar comparison could be made with our link to the Netherlands, how long would it last if KLM changed LBA to operate on Transavia via RTM which is 28 miles apart.

I’ll reiterate TK to IST or don’t bother…

 

[Finger66]

Unless TK use AJet as a possible lower risk strategy to test the route and connections out and then come on the route in their place but to IST rather than SAW. I do however agree TK would be the preference if possible but equally don't want to be throwing away any new routes and carriers

 

[gulftraveller]

I think A.Jet is a better bet for LBA. AYT and DLM would be good for starters. TK have set out their medium term targets in UK. They are NCL, GLA and BRS.

Given that SAW is served only from STN, MAN and, shortly, 3 weekly to BHX, I think that this may be a way off for other airports.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Ryanair puts its faith in Morocco with 35 new routes next summer

Ryanair reveals a fourth base in Morocco plus 35 new routes, including 11 domestic services for summer 2024

www.ttgmedia.com

 

[Finger66]

Can't think why they are doing this lol. Clearly happy going after both Jet2 as well as Wizz now. Healthy competition is good though - hopefully anyway