Route Development & Rumours

[LBAYORKIE]

With the sheer amount of asians in the west yorkshire area now its a huge untap

Dont you mean the 777 was half the length of the runway
Just out of interest when it comes to the weight of the fuel against the weight of possible freight and pax, hows it compare, any figures?

There wont be any freight, no facilities for it at Leeds.

 

[Aviador]

There wont be any freight, no facilities for it at Leeds.

Didn't you ask the CEO about freight?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Didn't you ask the CEO about freight?

Didn't you ask the CEO about freight?

I don't think so but in any case I suppose its a bridge they will only think about crossing when they have to. Its unlikely to be an issue with narrow bodies though.

 

[pug]

With the sheer amount of asians in the west yorkshire area now its a huge untap

Dont you mean the 777 was half the length of the runway
Just out of interest when it comes to the weight of the fuel against the weight of possible freight and pax, hows it compare, any figures?

That would depend on a number of factors. Obviously at somewhere like LHR with its super long runways these sort of considerations aren’t so important, but at airports like LBA where there may be a market for wide body longer haul flights it would be down to the performance analysts to review and determine what’s possible and what sort of profitable load could be handled.

 

[Bigman]

Have we not got a separate thread to discuss aircraft performance issues like this. This thread really seems to have drifted

 

[HX3]

Back in the day, I recall reading average load factor for PIA was 82% which if translated to the A321 CEO of airblue (seating I believe 222) would be 182 passengers. If it runs 3 times weekly then this should add approximately 56k passengers, which will be a nice addition.

I am also hoping that there may be a Saudi route up the airports sleeves. Both flynas and flyadeal have opened routes to Europe this year, so maybe there is potential for Leeds Bradford to Jeddah?

I know for some there is no love lost for TUI, but I got notification yesterday that TUI summer 2027 goes on sale next month - so who knows maybe they’ll surprise us - if nothing else if they display more Ryanair/Easyjet options, this could supplement bookings.

 

[Aviador]

There is no way a 787-8 is coming to LBA. Runway is too short. You’ll never take any payload to make it worthwhile.

Using AI I asked if it was possible to operate out of LBA to the Caribbean using a 787-8 using the correct LDA / TORA information and provide alternatives where possible.

Airbus A321XLR Modern, efficient, perfect for long/thin routes. High acquisition cost, high demand. High

Boeing 757-200 Proven capability, powerful engines. Aging fleet, outdated technology, high fuel burn. High

Boeing 767-200ER Proven route, widebody comfort. Old, inefficient, high operating costs. Moderate (with payload trade-offs)

Boeing 787-8 (with FP kit) Modern, efficient, great passenger experience. Over-sized for the mission, less efficient than A321XLR. Low to Moderate (severe payload trade-offs)

The most economically realistic solution to operate Caribbean routes from the existing LBA runway is not a widebody like the 787, but the Airbus A321XLR. It represents the perfect blend of modern efficiency, long range, and excellent short-field performance required for this specific challenge.

What was interesting though was if you factor out freight in a trade off with some premium economy seats the range for medium haul the 787-8 could make Dubai and Doha possible.

As you previously alluded though, it is unlikely - but not impossible.

To capitalise on the benefits of the A321XLR I asked AI what routes would become viable options factoring in runway restrictions at LBA.

Let's break this down into a clear, text-based summary of the destinations achievable from Leeds Bradford (LBA) using an Airbus A321XLR, categorized by range and viability.

Summary of Achievable Destinations from LBA with an A321XLR

The A321XLR's combination of long range (8,700km / 4,700nm) and excellent short-field performance makes LBA's 2,250m runway a non-issue and unlocks a vast network of routes.

---

1. Short & Medium Haul (0 - 4,000 km) - Effortless Operations

· Viability: Full payload, year-round, multiple daily flights possible.
· Destinations:
· UK & European Hubs: London Heathrow (LHR), Amsterdam (AMS), Dublin (DUB), Paris (CDG), Brussels (BRU), Frankfurt (FRA).
· European Leisure: All major resorts in Spain (Palma de Mallorca PMI, Malaga AGP), Portugal (Faro FAO, Lisbon LIS), Italy (Naples NAP), Greece (Athens ATH, Heraklion HER), Cyprus (Larnaca LCA), Turkey (Antalya AYT).

2. Long Haul - Core Mission (4,000 - 7,000 km) - Viable & Profitable

· Viability: Full passenger payload expected. The primary economic purpose of the aircraft.
· North America (East Coast):
· Boston (BOS): ~4,500 km - Easily achievable.
· New York (Newark EWR, JFK): ~5,100 km - Highly viable.
· Washington DC (IAD): ~5,300 km - Strong candidate.
· Toronto (YYZ): ~5,200 km - Within range.
· Newfoundland (St. John's YYT): ~3,500 km - Very easy.
· The Caribbean:
· Barbados (BGI): ~6,750 km - Perfectly viable.
· Punta Cana (PUJ): ~7,000 km - Well within range.
· Antigua (ANU): ~6,500 km
· Aruba (AUA): ~7,200 km (may require slight wind management, but achievable).
· Africa & Middle East:
· Cape Verde (VXE): ~4,300 km
· Israel (Tel Aviv TLV): ~3,600 km
· Jordan (Amman AMM): ~3,700 km
· Dubai (DXB): ~5,500 km - Well within range.

3. Ultra Long Haul (7,000 km+) - Demanding, Possible with Management

· Viability: Possible, but could be subject to payload restrictions (e.g., reduced passenger numbers or cargo) on days with high temperatures or unfavorable winds. Likely seasonal or less frequent operations.
· North America (West Coast):
· Los Angeles (LAX): ~8,400 km - At the very limit of the range. Would require careful flight planning and likely payload trade-offs.
· San Francisco (SFO): ~8,300 km - Similarly challenging.
· Other:
· The Azores (PDL): ~2,100 km - Not long, but included here as a useful technical stop option if ever needed for the very longest routes.

Key Takeaways:

· Game Changer: The A321XLR is the ideal tool for unlocking long-haul travel from regional airports like LBA.
· Caribbean & East Coast US: These are no longer just possible but become the core, viable business case for the aircraft. Flights to Barbados or New York could operate with a full load of passengers and their bags.
· No Runway Extension Needed: The aircraft's performance makes the existing 2,250m runway sufficient.
· Operational Reality: Only the very longest routes (e.g., West Coast USA) would require any meaningful operational management. The vast majority of routes would be routine.

 

[Finger66]

And if anyone wants to make a short joke about the 787 not being compatible with LBA I can provide you with a dream one liner!

 

[gulftraveller]

The A321XLR may not be all it seems. Simple Flying reports that Iberia, one of the first to receive the type, say that, despite the advertised 4700 nm range, in reality the aircraft can only manage 3920 nm in a 182 configuration. This combined with restricted cargo and baggage capacity has apparently deterred a number of airlines from ordering the model.

 

[Aviador]

The A321XLR may not be all it seems. Simple Flying reports that Iberia, one of the first to receive the type, say that, despite the advertised 4700 nm range, in reality the aircraft can only manage 3920 nm in a 182 configuration. This combined with restricted cargo and baggage capacity has apparently deterred a number of airlines from ordering the model.

OK then let's work with that figure. That is 7257km which covers all the most likely long haul options from LBA. Maybe not the ultra long haul then. I'll settle for that. Bring it on.

 

[gulftraveller]

Yes agreed. The 321 is no 757 when it comes to short takeoff distances. Keep in mind airfield elevation which changes the numbers. I am not an XLR sceptic but I am just not sure it is the ‘game changer’ we hoped.

 

[Aviador]

Yes agreed. The 321 is no 757 when it comes to short takeoff distances. Keep in mind airfield elevation which changes the numbers. I am not an XLR sceptic but I am just not sure it is the ‘game changer’ we hoped.

Not disputing any of that and it is still very much a wait and see with this aircraft but Iberia isn't the only customer. A quick Google search on news shows many recent articles about airlines planning XLR ops and all read very positively. In any case even if it can't achieve quite what it was advertised, for Leeds at least it will still be a game changer.

 

[752]

Hopefully Boeing pulls their finger out and gets a new MOM aircraft on the market (10 years off realistically?!?!)

Anyway back to rumours.. let’s get this ISB route on sale!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Yes agreed. The 321 is no 757 when it comes to short takeoff distances. Keep in mind airfield elevation which changes the numbers. I am not an XLR sceptic but I am just not sure it is the ‘game changer’ we hoped.

The biggest mistake boeing has ever made was discontinuing the Boeing 757! Imagine an upgraded 757 with modern tech, new cabin and with super powerful upgraded engines! Although the A321 is a fantastic aircraft its certainly no 757, plus with the 757 been just that little bit bigger it makes the difference ie more wing fuel storage. Something tells me if boeing had a 757max then airbus orders would be somewhat lower!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

OCS showing AirBlue ISB slots via IST day Tue, Fri, Sun for W25.

Thats very positive. They're going to have to 'put their skates' on though if they start then.

 

[Statto]

Via Istanbul on Tuesday, Friday and Sunday through LBA. Late afternoon turnround at LBA.

Starflyer on the money again

And just whilst we’re here, what other developments might be in prospect?

Which might mean this post deserved more attention ?

 

[mdobuk21]

OCS showing AirBlue ISB slots via IST day Tue, Fri, Sun for W25.

What’s OCS?

 

[HX3]

Starflyer on the money again


Which might mean this post deserved more attention ?

I did attempt to discuss potential other routes by mentioning Low cost Saudi flights, but no interest, just thread drift.

 

[Scottie Dog]

I did wonder why Aviador as asking Air India about performance and then I was realised I was getting confused with Artificial Intelligence!!

 

[AirBingley]

This is really positive as it’s extra passengers without encroaching on those valuable out of hours slots!