Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations

[White Heather]

I think the UK news or lack of news is so dramatic. Basically, we have had the tail and of a hurricane that hit our region direct on, we had 3 diversions that then repositioned. We get a photo of a plane taking off and a load of drama over nowt.

It's an event that affected most, if not all airports. There are various reports of delays and cancellations from around the country. The storm itself may be newsworthy but this obsession with publications rushing to airports to photograph or video aircraft 'struggling' to land is ridiculous. The cynic in me thinks they are hoping to see an accident as it happens and gets an exclusive . Perhaps too there's an element of trying to demonstrate climate change and to try and scare people away from flying , in particular at LBA. Funny how a Manchester based publication comes to LBA regularly to take photos that all look very much the same. Who cares?

I just watched a livestream video at BHX filmed earlier today for comparison purposes with LBA. Their runway points the same direction as ours though not as high obviously.. It's also far from flat, looking more like a water slide when viewed from the end, setting off downhill with 3 or 4 dips as you progress down the runway then rising slightly again at the end that was extended some years ago. Aircraft today were landing with some difficulty but getting in. Taking off actually looked worse as once they rotated the aircraft frequently blew to one side of the runway. But, it's all regular stuff at an airport and no more newsworthy than a few snowflakes landing in London.

 

[BCFC]

if only the runway was aligned west/east.

If we all had a pound for that one…

 

[KARFA]

If we all had a pound for that one…

Oh I acknowledge they aren’t going to rebuild the runway. But unlike some others, I do realise it’s a problem - like today - and think that if only the nasty papers didn’t pick on poor little LBA showing photos and videos the problem would somehow disappear

 

[BCFC]

Oh I acknowledge they aren’t going to rebuild the runway. But unlike some others, I do realise it’s a problem - like today - and think that if only the nasty papers didn’t pick on poor little LBA showing photos and videos the problem would somehow disappear

Its been like that and will stay like that…end of.

 

[KARFA]

Its been like that and will stay like that…end of.

Absolutely. End of

 

[LBA4EVER]

Oh I acknowledge they aren’t going to rebuild the runway. But unlike some others, I do realise it’s a problem - like today - and think that if only the nasty papers didn’t pick on poor little LBA showing photos and videos the problem would somehow disappear

Going into stuck record mode here again but yes like I've mentioned before by repositioning the touch down zones more to the start of the runway esp the runway32 end would make a bad problem not as bad, ok fair enough you will always have the cross wind issue but whether there is wind or not its better to land on a flat suface rather than on a down slope, and of course more LDA is always better esp for the heavies/widebodies or those sometimes fast and slippy 737 800s.
Like some have pointed out on here there is the cost of repositioning the tdz, ils etc and apparently the airport management believe the current situation is ok, i disagree on that part esp if they want to attract mid east carriers or create a better runway experience for pax!

 

[Aviador]

Broken record not half, and only at Leeds.

Nobody goes on the BHX forums to tell them their runway points in the wrong direction.

Nobody goes on the LHR forums to tell them to get their capacity constraints sorted or to talk about all the delays and cancellations there.

We don't hear a great deal about the hill top that BRS sits on either.

Somehow there is a special place in people's hearts for LBA. The airport at high altitude ( the hight of a maybe three Douglas Fir trees )

Basically we all know the problems and limitations that exist at LBA and at other airport around the UK. The idea that we all need reminding of it with every gust of wind or snowflake is tiresome to say the least.

Infrastructure in the UK is on the whole dire. Heathrow had over 30 delays and cancellations yesterday. For a national airport, that is embarrassing.

 

[KARFA]

well said @Aviador

let's not discuss problems at LBA in the LBA forum anymore, regardless of whether they are correct or not. this forum should only be for folks saying nice things, and if you say anything bad (even if your own experience travelling thro the airport) be prepared for the usual LBAevangelists to tell you why you are wrong, take it personally as if they have shares in the airport, and that apparently other problems exist at other airports (who knew?).

More power to the echo chamber

 

[rollo]

As BHX has had acouple of mentions re runways etc there's a couple of videos on utube by Airport Action from the last 2 days windy weather which shows LBA is not unique.

Yesterday a Ryanair managed a tail scrape and Thursday morning the Emirates A380 suffered windshear just before touchdown which was decidedly dodgy, with the aircraft needing the extra width of the runway and running the full length befre exiting.I've tried posting the videos put it's beyond my limited computer skills or patience.

P.S.
I know its not strictly relevant to LBA but it shows itsnot alone with a poorly located runway but they are really just a legacy from way back when they were grass aerodromes and at least can make for interesting viewing although the pilots may have a different view.

 

[Len Fish]

There seems little point in discussing “problems” that can’t be solved such as the runway orientation or the weather LBA gets. The fact is the airport is on a roll at the moment with passengers increasing, airlines starting new routes and best of all the new terminal extension and other infrastructure improvements that should be a game changer. By all means point out problems that can be addressed but let’s remain positive, there’s enough negativity from those who cannot be named without us adding to it.

 

[Statto]

I agree. From what I can tell of the airport’s recent masterplan, precisely £0 of the £200m to be invested over the next few years has anything to do with making it less susceptible to adverse weather. And the team before them didn’t develop any plans, nor did the team before them. In fact we’re probably back to the Bill Savage era 30 years ago the last time any major investment was made, when CAT3 was installed. To me at least, that tells me that nothing much can be done, or nothing much can be done at a price that makes sense to anyone.

Why is that? Well, there’s a huge amount of data showing the impact of adverse weather, and while it fluctuates massively in the short term, over a longer term it’s a fairly predictable pattern. Low visibility, wind and snow will cause issues, leading to diversions and cancellations, mostly concentrated between October and March. The frequency and impact of that is easy to assess, for both the airport and airlines, and they make their judgements accordingly. On balance, it looks to me like the airlines are happy to grow their operations here and the airport are satisfied that things like the terminal, parking stands etc are more important thing to invest in.

So for me, holding an inquest each time bad weather impacts the airport is a bit of a waste of time and energy. I say that not because of some head in the sand, denialist attitude, but because bad weather is a known, predicable and unsurprising event that in the grand scheme of things doesn’t appear to deter airlines from operating or investors from investing in the business.

Despite that, and for various reasons, some people will try and overplay the impact of bad weather, making it seem more frequent than it is in reality. The “LBA is always foggy brigade”. Remember, that’s just an echo chamber too

 

[CM.]

My photos of the 752 that diverted from Manchester. The pax remained on the aircraft and departed back there.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827385024754143665

 

[GolfFox]

Going into stuck record mode here again but yes like I've mentioned before by repositioning the touch down zones more to the start of the runway esp the runway32 end would make a bad problem not as bad, ok fair enough you will always have the cross wind issue but whether there is wind or not its better to land on a flat suface rather than on a down slope, and of course more LDA is always better esp for the heavies/widebodies or those sometimes fast and slippy 737 800s.
Like some have pointed out on here there is the cost of repositioning the tdz, ils etc and apparently the airport management believe the current situation is ok, i disagree on that part esp if they want to attract mid east carriers or create a better runway experience for pax!

Not just the cost but more a mandatory requirement for a 'protection zone' which is why it had to be moved in the first place.

 

[Bigman]

Fogtastic

 

[dmrodgers]

Not just the cost but more a mandatory requirement for a 'protection zone' which is why it had to be moved in the first place.

Not being technically minded could you kindly explain to the uneducated like myself on airport safety measures why we need a protection zone when prior to the runway extension the touch down point was much nearer the end of 32. Bristol, with similar runway characteristics to ours has the touch down point at the very end of runway 09 and close to the end on runway 27.

 

[Aviador]

As far as I am aware the land only slopes away gradually at BRS in comparison with LBA where the land falls away quite steeply.

 

[GolfFox]

Not being technically minded could you kindly explain to the uneducated like myself on airport safety measures why we need a protection zone when prior to the runway extension the touch down point was much nearer the end of 32. Bristol, with similar runway characteristics to ours has the touch down point at the very end of runway 09 and close to the end on runway 27.

It's to do with Runway End Safety Area - you can get more accurate information from the CAA CAP portal than from me. If I recall the recommended distance was/is 240 metres from the end of the 'strip' as they used to call it (or may still do) and it came in around the time of CAT3 ILS installation to supposedly increase safety on the CAT4 runway as the land sloping away significantly was considered a risk. I believe the exact distance is 'calculated' by risk assessment. There was talk at the time of 'filling' and levelling the old reservoir at the end of 32 to provide an acceptable safety area but it never happened. I'm sure WH will probably recall and add to or correct this.
In the case of Bristol, the 27 end apparently has the required distance from the boundary fence to the threshold albeit over flat unpaved land. Whether they were able to get some sort of dispensation for not having the area paved I have no idea. Don't know about landing on the 09 end but assume the same must apply in the event of overrun on 27. As an aside, moving the threshold and TDZ on 32 did raise the glidepath a tad above those who shall not be mentioned ----- some folk are never satisfied!!

 

[LBA787]

View attachment 31197
As far as I am aware the land only slopes away gradually at BRS in comparison with LBA where the land falls away quite steeply.

The similarities are much closer with the 09 end at BRS dropping away down to the Seven estuary in the same way the 32 end at LBA drops towards Leeds. Winters lane is a road that goes around the perimeter edge towards the south side, if you drive around you can see it’s like a cliff edge with the approach lights on pylons similar to LBA.

The key difference, LBA 32 is CatIII where as BRS 09 is CATII.

* I’ve just realised you’re comparing BRS 27 to LBA 32 - you’re right BRS 27 has a very gradual drop in topography eastwards towards Felton Common very different to LBA.

 

[752]

Why are so many aircraft missing ?

 

[YankeeDelta]

Why are so many aircraft missing ?

Unfortunately a combination of low cloud and a strong crosswind. Latest met is wind 010 varying 320 to 050 at 18 gusting 30kts. Vis 1600m mist cloud scattered 100ft overcast 200ft.