Leeds Bradford - General Thread

[cmj]

KLM was suffering badly due to fog on Sunday. Fog at Schipol!

 

[Airplane]

Just booked return flights to San Francisco with Air Lingus £800. £300 cheaper than BA

 

[Bigman]

Does anyone know when any winter timetables will be out? They must be due to start in the next few weeks.

 

[lbaspotter]

Does anyone know when any winter timetables will be out? They must be due to start in the next few weeks.

I should have my lbaspotters.net winter 2015/16 online timetable completed by the end of this weekend if all goes to plan. Will update when i've got it uploaded,.

 

[Aviador]

Northern powerhouse my arse. We're approaching the end of the airline announcement season with only two extra flights to Spain with Vueling?

Those of you who follow what's happening at other airports will know Hainan are establishing new flights to China from Manchester. Big names such as Qatar are queuing up at Birmingham.

Meanwhile in the foggy backwater known as Leeds Bradford, nothing is happening. As we enter the quiet winter season when airlines are detered from using Leeds Bradford, I would hope our airport forefathers are working hard to drag the place back into the 21 century.

We can all but hope as we look on from the sidelines as our neighbouring cities and their airports push ahead with visionary plans to establish them onto the world stage.

 

[jason1-11]

On days like today the airport is a total "basket case." We know it, the travelling public know it and so do the airlines. No wonder Manchester does so well with West Yorkshire based travellers.

Surely we deserve and should expect more than this.

 

[Bigman]

HS2 will probably be up an running to the Northern Powerhouse (Manchester) before we ever see any major investment in LBA. LBIA will probably then go the same was as Teesside as we will all be able to get to MAN in less than an hour, not get fogged out for days on end, and have direct flights worldwide available.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Am i the only one on this forum happy with the size and scope of LBA.
i dont think it will ever be allowed a structure to ensure direct flights everywhere.
On my global travels have no issue over the last 30 years with LBA as a hub and over the last 10 years now has an impressive short haul ccatalogue.
Living locally i know the pressures bought to bear with regard to any changes

 

[Aviador]

Tarn Spotter

Nobody is deluded here. Everybody knows the limitations of LBA but the airport can and should be able to expand more within these limitations. I am really please you are happy with the summer offering of bucket and spade hops to Spain but LBA can and should achieve much more. Adiquate business flights to the majority of European capital cities, worldwide connections through Dubai World Central are possible. Limited scheduled flights to the States are possible and LBA has a catchment area to sustain these kind of flights without the need for neighbouring Manchester airport.

 

[lbaspotter]

What annoys me more is the fact we lose routes to places like Milan, Madrid, Almeria, Toulouse, Olbia, Berlin, La Rochelle, Avignon, Brussels, Copenhagen and Sharm el Sheikh but gain more flights to Alicante, Malaga, Palma and Barcelona

Look at the growth predictions from Manchester next year, Expansion announced by Thomas Cook, Ryanair, Easyjet, Flybe and Jet2 along with new routes been added by Vueling, Iberia Express, Hanian and Shaheen. Liverpool is also growing again with the likes of Aer Lingus, Flybe, Vueling, Air Blue and CSA Checzh Airlines all adding new routes. Birmingham is surely set for a big rise as they have announced 11 new airline operators in the last 12 months alone! Actually it seems most other UK airports are also set or growth, that even includes the likes of Doncaster, Norwich, Exeter and Cardiff.

What's Leeds-Bradford added?
More flights to Malaga by Monarch (At the expense of axing Antalya), yet more flights to Barcelona by Vueling and Thomson Holidays adding Mahon and Cyprus Paphos and more flights to Palma with Air Europa. (But they are axing Crete Heraklion and Enfidha along with dropping capacity to Dalaman and Corfu from 2x weekly 1x weekly)
I just hope the Flybe (even though they have a useless history at LBA) rumour of 2x based aircraft comes true and hopefully Extrajet get into the sky and launch there new business routes to Antwerp and Copenhagen if they can sucure enough funding.
On a final noting it is worth noting Ryanair have just this week launched an expanded flights programme for this winter season and seem to have even more flights planned for next summer whilst based operator jet2 chose to use larger aircraft (eg basing Boeing 757s and Boeing 737-800's) instead of adding extra based aircraft and launching new routes. I think it's a first time for them not to announce at least 1 new route from LBA for the next summer period.

 

[White Heather]

I recently wrote to LBA setting out all the concerns regularly voiced on this forum, including terminal issues, airfield issues and the abject failure to deliver more services. The response was encouraging, and acknowledged that there is considerable disappointment and disquiet about what is happening (or not happening) at LBA. Meanwhile, the Masterplan was supposed to be released for public consultation in October. Today is the 28th. We can forget the 31st as it's a Saturday, so there are 2.5 working days left for them to do what they said or miss yet another deadline.

 

[rmac]

The fact that the Masterplan is not ready yet again is I think fairly serious as any prospective new business, either airline, retail or whatever needs to be confident that future growth is going to happen. Any doubts then other airports will benefit. For instance , and this not really the fault of the airport management, but what is Leeds City Council going to do to improve accessability to the airport - will a rail link be built or not, will a station be provided for a shuttle link up to the airport or will this not be happening. The new airport link road seems to be on course, but when?- it needs to be done now. This should have been planned 5 or 6 years ago so that now it could be open or soon to be opened! Improvements to the runway and associated instrument landing aids also need to be done to improve, if possible, the number of diversions. Also - what about the Phase 2 expansion of the terminal building - the plan to fill in the 'curve', revamp check in facilities. If those planning to invest in the airport know what is happening and when, they can make sensible decisions.
I feel that the slow progress over these issues will have an affect on future growth and I regret that any new exciting services will be few and far between - maybe the advent of ExtraJet will be the only source of excitement for a few years to come. Okay - the airport is doing reasonably well with its existing services and these will stay but more needs to be done to help the airport achieve its potential.

 

[airforced]

Let me say at the outset that I don't post on here as often as I used to. It doesn't seem worthwhile to just keep regurgitating the same old stuff in the hope that something will change if a sufficient number of people express a view on the matter.

The missing masterplan, terminal improvements and extension, navigation aids and more stands, route expansion etc etc have been flogged to death since I first came here in 2010 and we are all saying (and complaining) about the same things in 2015.

Why? There are many intelligent Members on here so isn't it about time that we all raised the hypothetical white flag and admit that LBA is never going to be able to compete with the unmentionable other place over the hill however hard people wish it. We are a backwater airport serving bucket and spade destinations and so it will remain. Occasionally a treat comes along and we get something different which cheers us up no end. How long it lasts is always open to question. This always depends on passenger numbers (ie profit for the airline).

Healthy discussion, complaints or congratulations where appropriate stimulate use of the forum but make not a jot of difference to what the airport or its' airlines do so keep moaning and wishing all you will as it won't make much if any difference at all except possibly make you feel better in yourself for getting it off your chest.

There I feel better now!

Tin hat now?

 

[White Heather]

Things like that were said in the 70s and early 80s about the runway. We would never get a runway extension. Some of us fought for it and we did get one. They also said it about 24 hour flying and once again we did shout about it and eventually we got that too. Since then the airport has done well, but the perception is that it is now standing still while others move on and that the owners are not doing what they said. By telling them that people are angry and disappointed that message will get through to the airport directors and the shareholders. Maybe - just maybe in time things might change and we just might get the improvements. The more people who let their feelings be known, the more likely it is to happen. My frustration is that members say it on here but don't put pen to paper or send an email to the airport to tell them what they think. I recently put a comment on the airport Facebook messages and I know for a fact that what I put was forwarded to the airport director. In turn he asked me to tell him specifically what people thought, and I did.

 

[Aviador]

White Heather is spot on. LBA would be handling little more than a few flights a day to Amsterdam if people hadn't campaigned for the airport to develop and expand over the years.

There are vociferous campaigners out there seeking a new purpose built airport for Leeds capable of handling flights around the world. This will never become a reality as the country can only sustain probably five or six airports of that capacity namely, Heathrow, Gatwick, Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh airports. That's not to say Leeds Bradford Airport can't aim for higher.

LBA should be able to achieve significant growth in these key strategic areas.

• European scheduled services
• Charter flights further afield
• Limited international scheduled services

Leeds Bradford Airport has the ability to significantly increase European scheduled services. This could be done with existing and new operators flying city and sun routes.

Other comparable UK airports have seen growth in charter flights to North America, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean and there is no reason why LBA can't achieve similar growth.

Similar to the charter situation, other UK airports have managed to attract flights to airports such as Doha and Dubai offering numerous connections to the southern hemisphere. Like much of the UK, Leeds and West Yorkshire has a sizeable number of ex-pats living out in Australia who would use this service.

So what's stopping LBA from growing further?

The drive-time to LBA is regarded as excessive. This is being addressed and Leeds City Region proposals include widening of the A6110 Leeds Outer Ring Road; Airport Link Road; New Orbital road leading to the A1(M) East of Leeds.

Runway limitations. This is regarded as a major stumbling block but altering the configuration would significantly improve the capability of the runway without extending it. We are yet to see if this is going to be addressed by the airport operator.

Terminal limitations. The terminal has severe capacity constraints due to it's size, design and numerous ad-ons causing congestion bottlenecks. We are yet to see if this is going to be addressed by the airport operator.

Last week I was reading an article about Liverpool airport where the airport authority Peel Holdings is seeking third party investment from Liverpool council to make improvements to the airport terminal. I'm not sure how the financing of this works but maybe it's something Bridgepoint could look at if they consider it too risky as a business to make the kind of investment LBA needs.

Liverpool Airport set for council investment

 

[White Heather]

So, the moral if the story is that if you want to see LBA grow in the way Aviador has suggested (which is exactly right in my opinion), by all means have your say on here, but tell the airport directly too. If you are on FB you can like the airport's FB page and then post a message to them on there if you don't want to go the lengths of writing a letter. When I have done so I have always had a reply and the last time, my message was flagged up to the MD. Alternatively, email the airport to express your views. I suspect that the more who do, the more pressure will be put on Bridgepoint Shareholders to loosen those purse strings and to develop the airport as though they mean it. This winter we are getting nice toilet refurbishments, which is always to be welcomed, but the funadmental issues that blight LBA will still be there next summer.

If your perception is that LBA is treading water right now - let them know how you feel in a constructive manner. I do that as far as I can for all of you via the Consultative Committee meetings and my own actions, but they need to understand that there is a difference between loyalty towards your local airport and total satisfaction with what is on offer.

To be fair it may be that Bridgepoint do have all of the obvious issues in hand, but the on-going delay in publishing the Masterplan (due largely to the on-going discussions with Leeds City Countil in order that the end document is 'joined up') leaves us all wondering a little bit longer. Even then, there is plenty in the previous Masterplan that never came to fruition. I am sure all of us want to see a programme of improvement that happens on schedule rather than a list of 'nice to have's' that won't ever happen.

 

[Aviador]

White Heather

Have you ever thought of formally inviting the airport management to this forum, maybe even just for a week in "speak to the management "questions and answers thread? I am sure our members would be all too happy to share there views good and bad. I would be more than happy for you to moderate posts to weed out anything that might be unacceptable.

 

[a300boy]

I went to a presentation by the Airport Management recently. I am not allowed to report the content of the meeting and would not do so but I can say I came away disappointed but maybe that is because I hoped for so much more.

 

[lbaspotter]

White Heather

Have you ever thought of formally inviting the airport management to this forum, maybe even just for a week in "speak to the management "questions and answers thread? I am sure our members would be all too happy to share there views good and bad. I would be more than happy for you to moderate posts to weed out anything that might be unacceptable.

Aviador as you've already mentioned White Heather is well informed with LBA's management seen as she attends the Airports consultive committee and updates us on here everytime after every meetimg but just as a suggestion how about you, seen as you are this forums owner try and invite somebody from the airport to answer some of our questions on here.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I stopped myself from posting during the recent discussion into potential improvements at LBA as it really is the same old thing rehashed time and again. With the news that Flybe are to set up shop in Donny, I felt it appropriate to comment.

The big problem for me is that all the big expansion type plans are all years away and subject to all sorts of different factors and, whilst these should be worked on in the meantime, they should not gloss over the main problems that the airport has, which have been thoroughly exposed by the Doncaster situation.

I posted a couple of months ago to complain about my arrivals experience at LBA and, frankly, that was my third complaint in a year about LBA arrivals. I also wrote to the airport directly on two occasions and to an airline on the third. The response I got from the airline was pathetic though even this was better than the response I received from LBA which was none-existent.

It is painfully obvious to me that LBA's biggest problem is the public perception of it. The airport's communication with their customers is almost zero and their relationship with the local media is diabolical. I lay the blame for this firmly at the door of the current management team. By the very words of White Heather, they know that customers are unhappy but do not know why.

Am I the only person that looks at that and thinks maybe they need to go on a bit of a PR drive?

Today, the Yorkshire Post has published an very positive article about Doncaster expansion and the good things that are happening there. What does LBA get from the Yorkshire Post and the YEP? Diddly. Squat.

Here is what needs to happen.

The management team need to get off of their backsides, get out into the community, communicate with customers and find out what the problems are. If it is anything like the industry in which I work, they will not have a clue about anything that happens outside the hours of 9-5, Monday to Friday. It is no good saying "if people have a problem, send us a letter". They know people have a problem and they are doing nothing. If they find out why people are unhappy, they can start to prioritise what they need to do to provide a better service. They could then start to plant positive news stories in the local rags telling everyone how much better they are making the place for passengers. Without expanding a jot in the next 3 years, they could improve their customer satisfaction score by 20%. Suddenly, people will start clamouring to use LBA. Suddenly, airlines will be queuing up to serve that demand. Suddenly, LBA will have a reason to start expanding. And then everything will look as rosy as the spectacles we all keep in our drawers.

It is piece by piece by piece but it has to start, undoubtedly, with the people at the top COMMUNICATING with the people at the bottom. If that isn't happening - and it isn't - absolutely nothing will change and we will all (hopefully) be here in 20 years' time saying exactly the same thing.