Pakistan International Airlines

[Aviador]

ACARS doesn't always tell the truth, so I don't know which is correct to be honest. Ah well!

 

[lbaspotter]

Hi

Anyone know why tonights outbound PK776 service to Islamabad operated by Airbus A310, AP-BEU is making and emergancy divert into Manchester?

As I type this at 22:30pm she had been holding in the rosun hold for about an hour burning off fuel. She is now decending down from FL100 to FL70 and asking for a 15 mile final into MAN.

 

[Aviador]

I was told today that the PIA had diverted having suffered a single engine failure on departure. The aircraft later carried out a full emergency at Manchester Airport. This highlight the need for newer equipment on the route as soon as possible.

 

[Aviador]

According to someone on 'another forum' the PIA departed this morning to Dubai. Does anyone know why?

 

[WYIA]

maintenance option in dxb?, pax transfer to other aircaft then onward to pakistan?

interesting.....

 

[lbaspotter]

Hi

It sounds like PIA have had more problems up at LBA tonight with Airbus 310-300, AP-BEG. After operating the inbound PK775 service from Islamabad she was reported to be leaking fuel when on the parking apron.

The fire crews were called out whilst an inbound Jet2.com Boeing 737-300, (Service LS232 from Barcelona) was told to take up the LBA hold.

 

[Aviador]

I don't really know what to say about this other than I wonder if the LBA managers are questioning whether or not it was a good idea having them at LBA with so many apparent problems with their aircraft. Having said that, supposedly PIA are bringing forward a transition to Boeing 777s on the route. Hopefully this will put an end to the apparent on going tech issues with the A310-300 aircraft.

 

[lbaspotter]

Hi Aviador

I just hope you right with your assumption that PIA will or are looking at upgradeing the aircraft on the LBA route to a Boeing 777 soon.

I just can't see how LBIA’s management can be happy with the current on going situation with PIA ops just lately!

Also I wonder how long it will be before the CAA does something or says something about this? As don’t forget only a couple of years ago the fleet of Airbus 310’s and Boeing 747’s that PIA operates where banned from European Airspace.

 

[Aviador]

Hi Aviador

I just hope you right with your assumption that PIA will or are looking at upgradeing the aircraft on the LBA route to a Boeing 777 soon.

I just can't see how LBIA’s management can be happy with the current on going situation with PIA ops just lately!

Also I wonder how long it will be before the CAA does something or says something about this? As don’t forget only a couple of years ago the fleet of Airbus 310’s and Boeing 747’s that PIA operates where banned from European Airspace.

You were thinking along the same lines as myself!

Apparently the airport fire station is going to upgrade to CAT 9 soon to facilitate larger aircraft. Supposedly PIA were initially talking about bringing in the Boeing 777 in around 18 months but this has apparently been brought forward because of the problems with the A310 aircraft.

Word in the camp suggests that if the transition to the Boeing 777 goes well the airline may move it's entire operation from Manchester to Leeds. This is just a rumour at the moment but there's no smoke without fire as they say.

Lets hope that with the move to the Boeing 777 will come a safer and more reliable service.

 

[yorkshire]

I thought the 777 coulndt land/take off from leeds due to the runway not being long enough? or am i wrong?

 

[wawkrk]

The performance of the 777-200 is almost the same as the A310.
The take-off distance just slightly longer full load compared with full load.
However, the Aircraft will never need to perform max weight take - off on the relatively short distance to Pakistan.

 

[wawkrk]

Further to my last post.
According to Boeing PIA only operate 777-200ER versions
These have the more powerful engines so take off distance could even be less than the A310-300.

 

[WYIA]

Yes the 777-200 ER/LR versions with PW engine will have little issue blasting off at Leeds. I would imagine a load limitation for initial ops, all this after some route trials too i imagine. The 777 has the performance but its like bringing a 737 onto an aircraft carrier almost, alot of skill. Even smaller aircraft crew find lba ops a challenge.

If all this comes off it will be a fantastic sight, but i find the statement regarding withdrawl from manchester ops pretty out ther.

We also have to take into account political and security issues surrounding this operation now due to problems in pakistan.

 

[wawkrk]

Well 747's used to mange ok.And don't forget Concorde.
As for take-off distance, the 737-300 requires more runway than a 777.

 

[XEROX]

Just a word up about why PIA flew to DBX, thats where its maintenace bay is located.

 

[White Heather]

Well the PIA is due in again tonight. In the past couple of weeks we have had a fuel leak, an engine failure, and ground collision and a security scare due to a suspicious package on board. Never a dull moment whn PIA are around. I wonder what will happen tonight or if, for once, everything goes as it should?

 

[lemonhead]

Well the PIA is due in again tonight. In the past couple of weeks we have had a fuel leak, an engine failure, and ground collision and a security scare due to a suspicious package on board. Never a dull moment whn PIA are around. I wonder what will happen tonight or if, for once, everything goes as it should?

I heard that the PIA flight had another fuel leak last night ?
I thought the leaky aircraft was banned wasn't it ?

 

[White Heather]

I hope this turns out to be just rumour and not fact, 'cos if PIA's A330's keep on dropping their fuel on the floor at LBIA, there is every chance that the airport will invite them to either replace them or cease operating. It may be a successful route but nothing is worth the risk of a major fire caused by a fuel leak on the ground. I imagine however that if these incidents are reported, and happen with any regularity, the CAA would take action to ban the aircraft type again, as they did a few years ago.

My understanding is that the aircraft that had a fuel leak last time is banned from LBIA and hasn't been back since. Perhaps this was another one??

Can anyone confirm that this happened and the aircraft involved if it did? I thought I heard the flight leave on time on Saturday night, whereas last time there was a fuel leak it was well delayed.

 

[Aviador]

I don't know how true it is but a colleague of mine did say that the A310 aircraft that came to Leeds on Saturday night did have a fuel leak. They described the leak as been "all over the ramp on stand 8." I couldn't possibly comment as to whether or not there was a safety risk. Presumably the airports own fire team responded as a precaution. Also, if the incident did indeed happen then I trust that the relevant aviation bodies will have been informed about the matter had that been the procedural course of action to take.

 

[WYIA]

Fuel leaks do happen alot, its more common with some aircraft than others.

Observe a heavy Fokker100 getting up on a hot day and look out for a thin "vortex" under the wings which is infact a stream of fuel coming out of the overflow valves as the tanks ballance out on departure.

Malfunctions in tank pumps or errors by the fuel service and cockpit crew can often lead to large overflow when the aircraft is on the ground. Airtours/Mytravel 757 aircraft had several fuel leaks when they operated from LBA I recall.

The overflow valves are there for just that purpose, they allow excess fuel due to over-fuels or pump malfunctions to escape the aircraft quickly. This is why ground staff should direct passengers arround the aircraft wing, lol not due to danger of flaps or hitting your head lol. Just incase the overflow valves kick in.

These fuel leaks are i assume purely down to the pumps or human error and not that there is a massive hole in the fuel tanks of the aircraft i am sure lol.

I am not playing down the fact that a fuel leak is a dangerous situation however there are some points to note;

It evaporates very quickly and often needs little intervention from the airport fire service except to keep the area free of an ignition source and keep people away. If there is a great quantity of fuel then the fire service usually spray foam or use a type of "Dangerous goods sponge" which absorb spills of fuel and oil.

In terms of ignition souce, it does need quite a high heat concentration to iginite. Ground staff are often running about the airport telling (shouting) at passengers to turn off their mobile phones as it is an ignition source lol (health and safety britain gone mad)
It would take a stupid fool and a box of matches to get a pool of aviation fuel burning not a phone, radio or the sun etc etc.

If the fuel was indeed all over the ramp at stand 8, then we are talking about a hell of alot of fuel so something has gone very badly wrong. That stand can fit a 767-300 so thats a rather large area, or perhaps someone got a tad carried away with that.. was it just a "large pool" perhaps within the stand area.

It would be interesting to know just how much and also was it on both sides of the a/c - ie- had the fuel come out of both wings?

Most incidents no matter how small or big , from bird strikes right up to tail strikes - end up in reports made to the CAA & i am sure after a recent bout of issues with the A310 fleet; PIA will be watched closely.

LBA need to remain in a good partnership with PIA regardless of these issues, if it gets to the point when Europe bans the A310 fleet then LBA an PIA need to get the airport ready for 777 operation ASAP. This service could well become almost daily within the next 2 years and this is revenue the airport can not pass up on.

Lets hope PIA get this sorted now and get the A310 fleet through some serious checks and overhauls. Its not easy in the current climate and the A310 spares will continue to get more expensive and less available.

One final note, fuel pumps go tech on a/c daily and it can be a brand new 737 less than a week old or a 19 year old A310. I can not speak for PIA and its fleet condition and service methods but it could just be some very bad luck at the same airport in a short period of time.


ardon: That was a long essay!