Pakistan International Airlines

[White Heather]

Well it makes sense, but lets just hope it goes well on the day then. I am not sure of dimensions, but surely the 777 is no longer or wider than a 747? They used LBA regularly in the past without any problems (apart from blasting debris all over the runway at take off!) and if one of those can operate then surely the 777 can? I just hope we find out about it before it happens as that is one arrival I would like to see, even if its from the back garden.

 

[wawkrk]

Just out of interest Heather.
A330-200 is 194ft long,
A330-300 209 ft
777-200 209 ft.
The Boeing 747 Classic that used LBA is 238 ft long.

 

[White Heather]

Thanks wawkrk. I guess that the main difference then is 2 engines, rather than 4 on the 747, but in terms of size, it shouldn't be a problem, surely

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Does the flight HAVE to use an airbridge? Wouldn't space be less of an issue further out? The current Islamabad airport does not have airbridges so PIA must be used to not using them. Is it written into the contract at LBA?

As others have stated, various larger aircraft have used the airport previously - most back in the days before the apron was expanded.

 

[tleeds]

Whoshotjimmi, the current Islamabad flight nearly always uses the airbridge, infact I think on every visit to LBA they have used the airbridge.

Am I to assume that any aircraft on Stand 8 can fit on Stands 9, 10, 11 etc... or is stand 8 slightly longer?

 

[stevolba]

looking at the parking charts (found hear http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -06-02.pdf) stand 8 is by far the longest, but i dont know if these are to scale or not

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Yes, I am aware that the flight more often than not uses the airbridge. What I am saying is if the aircraft were parked out at the far end of the apron, would it have less impact on the rest of the airport? i.e. not being in the way of other operations should it indeed be too long for the stand.

 

[radar]

I think the plan with the 777 would be to park it on the N3/N4 apron. I don't think that the tarmac section of taxiway N (ie. most of it) would take the weight of the 777, and taxiway N is the only way for larger aircraft to access the stands near the terminal.

 

[tleeds]

sorry WhoShotJimmi, I read your post wrong.

I think that the airport and ASU would have to make sure that there were no aircraft due to be parked on the N3/N4 stand area to enable the aircraft to park carefully and to make sure it can be fully operational ie- Trucks/Buses etc - being able to manouver around the aircraft.

Stevolba I think they are measured correctly, but Twy A moves around for the 'grass circles'. If they were allowed to cut through the grass and let Twy A continue in a straight line then I think the problem would be solved as the, now regular, Thomson 767 always parks on stand 8 and would now be allowed to park on stands 9 to 18, which surely should be adequate for the rumoured PIA B772?!

 

[lbaspotter]

The plan for parking a Boeing 777 on the Apron at LBA is for the aircraft to use Stand 8 for both ease off access to the terminal and facilities and for air bridge access. But by doing so as far as I understand would also close stand 9 due to the wingspan of the aircraft.

There is a reason for this. By parking the aircraft on stands 8/9 allows for the aircraft easy access to the apron once landed and to make push back easier on departure. This allows for pushing back the aircraft off stands 8 & 9 through Holding Point (C) and on to the taxi-way (N) and facing into the right direction for Departure.

At the point that she pushed back facing the right direction, She would then be allowed to start up engines and then by using her own power she can either do the following procedure.

Taxi along (N) - Through holding point (N1) - Back-Track runway 14. - Use Loop via holding points (E2 & E1) to line up runway 14.
Taxi along (N) - Though holding point (N2) - Taxi onto Taxiway (D) Then taxi through holding points (D1 & D2) – To then make 180 back-track to line runway 32. A follow me vehicle will be used down at the 32 end for the help of turning around and lining up the aircraft for a 32 departure.

Hope that helps.

 

[tleeds]

Thank you very much lbaspotter. Would Stand 7 not be affected then?

 

[lbaspotter]

Thank you very much lbaspotter. Would Stand 7 not be affected then?

From what I understand all other stands would remain operational. Only stand 9 would be effected..

 

[lbaspotter]

It looks like LBA had an helping hand by the lord mayor of Bradford last week when they saved the PIA service according to the business setion in the Telegraph & Argus.

Source: http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....rd_Mayor_saves_Bradford_air_link_to_Pakistan/

Lord Mayor helps Leeds-Bradford International Airport save flights to Pakistan
10:40am Thursday 2nd June 2011

Lord Mayor of Bradford, Councillor Naveeda Ikram

By Chris Holland »

The new Lord Mayor of Bradford played a crucial role in safeguarding the future of twice weekly direct flights from West Yorkshire to Pakistan.

On the day of her installation as the city’s civic head Coun Naveeda Ikram met with senior officials of Pakistan International Airline to persuade them to keep the Wednesday and Saturday flights from Leeds-Bradford International Airport and Islamabad.

Coun Ikram, who became the country’s first female British Muslim civic head last week, has worked in sales and marketing at PIA’s Bradford office since 1999 and helped to persuade company chiefs of the importance of the service to the local Pakistani community and businesses.

She told the T&A: “Senior officials of PIA were attending the mayor-making and I met with them there to put the case for retaining the flights which provide an invaluable service.

“Having worked for the airline for several years, I know how useful they are to the community in providing a valuable direct link with Pakistan and I’m delighted that PIA has decided to retain the service.”

Airport chiefs are pleased that two weeks of intensive negotiations have secured the non-stop service between Leeds-Bradford and the Pakistan capital which have been operating for three years. PIA launched the flights in 2008 to replace a short-lived Shaheen Air International service which was axed due to problems with plane availability.

There were fears that they could be cut – as were PIA flights from Glasgow in January – as part of a restructure ahead of a proposed new partnership with Turkish Airlines.

The airport’s commercial director Tony Hallwood said “We would like to thank the Bradford and wider Yorkshire community for its support in retaining this vital international link.

“We are now looking forward to building our relationship with PIA to develop and grow traffic on this flagship route."

 

[LeedsPilot]

I'm quite new here, but I've done some research into the takeoff and landing distances for aircraft operating to/from Pakistan using these:
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_g ... 091201.pdf
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/777.htm
The weights I have used are a calculated (but rounded) estimate based on a fully loaded (in PIA's configuration) flight to/from Islamabad.

Landing Distance:
A310-300: 4300ft (dry runway)
B777-200ER or LR: 4500ft (dry runway) 5200ft (wet runway)
B777-300ER: 5000ft (dry runway) 5900ft (wet runway)

Takeoff Distance:
A310-300: 5000ft
B777-200ER: 5200ft
B777-200LR: 4500ft
B777-300ER: 5500ft

These figures prove that operational capabilities are broadly the same between the two aircraft. This and the other post that talks about procedures on the ground confirm that IN THEORY the B777 should be able to operate from LBA.

 

[tleeds]

Well researched MAS737!

Let's just hope that because PIA have seen that there is potential in retaining the LBA route within their network, the B772 becomes a regular, sooner rather than later, at LBA and that it is a success.

 

[pilot_737]

There are many other factors involved though in determining the useable runway of an airport.
A turbojet aircraft must land withing 60% of the runway distance available which is 4420ft. This is further reduced to 3845ft in wet conditions (a factor of 15%). That means the landing mass must be low enough for the aircraft to stop in those distances.
Other factors include temperatures, pressures, air density, WIND, obstacle clearance heights, noise abatement procedures, anti skid limits, runway condition, rejected takeoff, runway slope etc.
Most calculations are assumed one engine inoperative too which will further restrict performance.
Any restricting factor can result in a reduction in field length limited take off mass or climb limited take off mass, so it may mean the aircraft having to leave without bags or without full capacity.

This is all based on the air law, and ops procedures of the ATPL sylabus I have just completed. I guess airlines and airports will have slightly different procedures.

 

[LeedsPilot]

Well at least all of modern airliners are not turbojet (turbofan instead) as everything would be restricted at LBA

 

[Jordan-34092]

Heard a rumour the test flight for the 777 into Leeds is to be done in august, don't know if this is true though

 

[LeedsPilot]

Fingers crossed then! It is plausible as they will have to start using the B777 fairly soon as there will be a shortage of A310's.

 

[Jordan-34092]

How come I thought they had 12 A310's ?