Route Development & Rumours

[Len Fish]

Is there anything that the West Yorkshire mayor can do to encourage Emirates to Leeds? Do they have the financial clout for incentives?

The only way she’d encourage Emirates to Leeds is if they ran buses.

 

[pug]

Well I think this article all but rules out Emirates coming to Leeds/Bradford anytime soon according to the airline's president Sir Tim Clark.

However, he said the lack of government support for the regions meant some airports, like Cardiff and Leeds Bradford, “are struggling”. “There was a seismic shift in de-industrialisation with the Thatcher era, and things did not get plugged in to replace.”

Emirates chief hints at growing ‘resilient’ UK operation and lowering fares

Sir Tim Clark told the Airlines 2023 conference in London the UK market has been ‘resilient to the fare levels’ the Gulf carrier currently has in place, adding: ‘I’m not saying they are going to last for ever’

www.ttgmedia.com

I don’t think we have enough context in that article, poorly written in my view. I don’t see how LBA is ‘struggling’ in any context and do wonder whether he has got confused between LBA and DSA which has as we know closed down. There is no comparison between CWL that is struggling and LBA which is seeing its busiest years on record. So is he talking about facilities? Well the news of investment in facilities has obviously passed him by.

Not really a problem for an airline that is subsidised by an exceptionally wealthy Government anyway but it might not be sustainable if they flood the U.K. market with cheap seats so that the Botox brigade can get their photos taken for Instagram in one of those horrid buildings in Dubai…. Call me a cynic but…

 

[ls27]

No not run buses. Hire cycles and put a new cycle lane the airport- two lane one of course

 

[Len Fish]

I don’t think we have enough context in that article, poorly written in my view. I don’t see how LBA is ‘struggling’ in any context and do wonder whether he has got confused between LBA and DSA which has as we know closed down. There is no comparison between CWL that is struggling and LBA which is seeing its busiest years on record. So is he talking about facilities? Well the news of investment in facilities has obviously passed him by.

Not really a problem for an airline that is subsidised by an exceptionally wealthy Government anyway but it might not be sustainable if they flood the U.K. market with cheap seats so that the Botox brigade can get their photos taken for Instagram in one of those horrid buildings in Dubai…. Call me a cynic but…

Does seem an odd comment about LBA. He equates their struggling to the lack of Government funding for the regions and old industries not being replaced but seems blind to the fact that Leeds itself is thriving and has overcome the loss of its traditional industrial base, for example becoming the second largest financial and legal centre outside of London. The ever increasing numbers of flights and passengers, together with the terminal plans just don’t fit in with his view of LBA.

 

[XEROX]

Worth noting Emirates will start receiving A350s from next year. They will keep the A380s at the uk major airports.

 

[pug]

Does seem an odd comment about LBA. He equates their struggling to the lack of Government funding for the regions and old industries not being replaced but seems blind to the fact that Leeds itself is thriving and has overcome the loss of its traditional industrial base, for example becoming the second largest financial and legal centre outside of London. The ever increasing numbers of flights and passengers, together with the terminal plans just don’t fit in with his view of LBA.

It is very odd, mentioning Thatcher out of context would tell me the person who wrote the article was perhaps a bit lazy with it and/or misinterpreted what was actually said.

Do think he’s become confused between LBA and DSA in this case, which would also suggest he has not looked at either airport seriously and has a passing awareness of other regions within the U.K. and unless we have further context provided I see no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Does seem an odd comment about LBA. He equates their struggling to the lack of Government funding for the regions and old industries not being replaced but seems blind to the fact that Leeds itself is thriving and has overcome the loss of its traditional industrial base, for example becoming the second largest financial and legal centre outside of London. The ever increasing numbers of flights and passengers, together with the terminal plans just don’t fit in with his view of LBA.

Yes leeds cc and the city is thriving, boom time with over 20 cranes currently up with numerous 30 and 40 floor skyscrapers planned to rise up! But just one problem you cant get in or out the city due to an extremely poor transport infrastructure! Roads jammed and crumbling to bits and of course no other form of transport into the city such as underground or supertram. But hey plenty of cycle lanes!!

 

[transitman]

Yes leeds cc and the city is thriving, boom time with over 20 cranes currently up with numerous 30 and 40 floor skyscrapers planned to rise up! But just one problem you cant get in or out the city due to an extremely poor transport infrastructure! Roads jammed and crumbling to bits and of course no other form of transport into the city such as underground or supertram. But hey plenty of cycle lanes!!

ye that hardly get used

 

[ls27]

Of course Leeds is doing well. It's population at my last time of looking was about 860,000. They are aiming to add at least another 10,000 with the flats that are being built. It is the next largest city after Birmingham. If the City Council had had the foresight in the past to develop it properly and not thinking it would be good to build flats on the site, we would have been in a better position viz a vi the smaller city on the dark side and it's airport.

 

[XEROX]

Worth pointing out, according to Resonance Consultancy, a global advisor on tourism and economic development, Leeds ranks 88th globally. For reference, Manchester is 72.

 

[Aviador]

Do think he’s become confused between LBA and DSA in this case

Confused yes, confused between LBA and DSA, no. He has probably never heard of the latter.

 

[White Heather]

Worth pointing out, according to Resonance Consultancy, a global advisor on tourism and economic development, Leeds ranks 88th globally. For reference, Manchester is 72.

These things always look at Greater Manchester, which isn't the same thing as the City of Manchester. In reality we can't compare Leeds, with Greater Manchester as we are a city and Greater Manchester is a sort of metropolitan county covering the City of Manchester itself, which isn't that big in terms of population, the City of Salford, plus the local towns of Bury, Oldham, Bolton, Altrincham (which originally was in Cheshire) and various others.

To compare equally we would be looking at West Yorkshire as the equivalent of Greater Manchester. That was never going to be called Greater Leeds though due to the presence of sizeable cities such as Bradford (itself having a bigger population than Manchester), Wakefield, plus towns the size of Huddersfield, Halifax, Dewsbury Keighley etc.

Recently the YEP published a nonsensical population of the UK cities showing Manchester as having a population well over 1m. That's not the case. That is Greater Manchester. According to the last census information, Leeds had the 3rd highest population after London and Birmingham, with Glasgow, Sheffield, Liverpool and Bradford coming next . Manchester's population (as a stand alone city) was just under half a million.

 

[Aviador]

I agree @White Heather these articles are nonsensical in my eyes. They mean nothing at all. The best way to make a comparison would be to draw an equal circles around cities and measuring the population within those circles. It would be difficult to do I suppose but basically all these articles do is creates pointless rivalry between cities. I have lost count of the amount of times I've heard my city is bigger than yours on a certain other forum for urbanity.

 

[gulftraveller]

The population of the city is only a small part of the equation: Birmingham is a larger city than Manchester but BHX has half the passengers of MAN. The calculation of the catchment involves far more than the city’s population.

Tim Clark’s comments are strange. EK is not interested in new destinations in the UK regions. He should say so rather than make apparently ill founded statements about growth and investment. They are also not going to dilute succesful existing routes.

The bottom line is how much business are they losing to other carriers by not serving CWL or LBA or LPL or BFS?

 

[Aviador]

The bottom line is how much business are they losing to other carriers by not serving CWL or LBA or LPL or BFS?

That is a very good point and while there are no services from CWL, LBA, LPL or BFS to the Middle East they have nothing to worry about. They likelihood is though that in the coming years someone will take the plunge and offer such services from those airports and then its a different ball game. We all know you don't need an A380 to go to places like Dubai and there are various options for smaller aircraft to offer a similar service from the UK regions.

Seating config for an Airbus A321XLR

Not suggesting Oceanic Airlines, just as an example of the seating configuration possible with the A321XLR. This aircraft of more than capable of flying to Dubai, New York or Qatar from LBA and many other UK regionals.

 

[ls27]

I think that if you compared the population of West Yorkshire with Greater Manchester, the latter would be slightly bigger - but by not a lot. Bearing in mind West Yorkshire has five 'independent' Metropolitan Districts and Greater Manchester has 10 local authorities

 

[Jerry]

I think that if you compared the population of West Yorkshire with Greater Manchester, the latter would be slightly bigger - but by not a lot. Bearing in mind West Yorkshire has five 'independent' Metropolitan Districts and Greater Manchester has 10 local authorities

Population of Greater Manchester in 2021 was 2.8 million, West Yorkshire 2.3 million.

 

[XEROX]

The population of the city is only a small part of the equation: Birmingham is a larger city than Manchester but BHX has half the passengers of MAN. The calculation of the catchment involves far more than the city’s population.

Tim Clark’s comments are strange. EK is not interested in new destinations in the UK regions. He should say so rather than make apparently ill founded statements about growth and investment. They are also not going to dilute succesful existing routes.

The bottom line is how much business are they losing to other carriers by not serving CWL or LBA or LPL or BFS?

The argument about diluting routes is a complex subject, especially for EK as one of its primary aims is to feed traffic into its super hub-spoke model, this is what Sir Tim Clarke mentioned last year,.....if Emirates, or Qatar for that matter wants to increase its 'golden egg' market share in the UK you have to grow the routes.... MAN has 3x daily A380 to Dubai, do we really think a once daily 777 over here will dent that.

 

[Coathanger16]

Recently the YEP published a nonsensical population of the UK cities showing Manchester as having a population well over 1m. That's not the case. That is Greater Manchester. According to the last census information, Leeds had the 3rd highest population after London and Birmingham, with Glasgow, Sheffield, Liverpool and Bradford coming next . Manchester's population (as a stand alone city) was just under half a million.

Even then, that's not actually correct.

Comparing "City of" populations (i.e. City of Leeds, City of Birmingham, City of London, etc), Birmingham is actually the largest, Leeds is 2nd, Manchester is 8th and London is 295th.

Now if you tried to tell pretty much anyone that London is only the 295th largest city in the UK, most people would look at you like you'd gone mad.

Generally when people refer to a particular city by name, they're referring to the city itself plus its associated urbanised areas. "City of X" and "Greater X" and simply "X" are all used interchangeably. Unless the specifically say, they're generally referring to the largest population i.e. "Greater X"

Rankings are largely pointless because it entirely depends on what your parameters are and where you draw the lines. Even if you find a method of comparing populations fairly, what does that figure matter other than to boost someones ego?

If London was a city in China, it would only be the 13th largest and yet Heathrow is busier than any airport in China. Airlines are interested in far more than population sizes.

The City of Bristol has roughly half the population of the City of Leeds, but BRS has almost 3 times as many passengers as LBA. Little to do with population but due to the fact the SW area (especially around BRS itself) is one of the wealthier parts of the country and the population that does live there are more likely to travel than in other parts of the country.

 

[Len Fish]

Plus Bristol and the counties around it (Gloucestershire, Somerset and Devon) have little competition near them unlike LBA.