Route Development & Rumours

[LBAYORKIE]

Perhaps you’ve missed this? This is from the airline itself:

Lufthansa is continuously evaluating and optimizing its entire route network. Due to unscheduled maintenance work on Pratt & Whitney engines in the Lufthansa Airbus A320neo fleet, Lufthansa Airlines will have significantly fewer aircraft available next year 2024 than originally planned. The company has therefore decided to suspend some routes from February 2024 that have not shown a positive economic development in recent months. One of the route that is affected by this suspension is Frankfurt - Liverpool. Lufthansa regrets this decision.
The cancellations will be published in the reservation systems on December 19, 2023 and passengers affected by cancellations will be informed and rebooked on alternative flights

Ridiculous, didnt give it enough time!

 

[White Heather]

Not really any surprise if the airport say it's a route doing well and the airline say something different to justify dropping an axe on it. Reality is probably somewhere in-between.

Lufthansa will certainly be thinking that LPL is relatively close to MAN so an easy victim in the same way that here, Wizz have axed Katowice because it's close to Krakow, again due to the loss of aircraft. LBA say it's temporary - Wizz have said nothing yet. Either , neither, or both routes could come back once normality is restored .

However ,I can't accept that Lufthansa would not start at LBA unless they've reinstated LPL and BRS first. With the newly extended terminal, the right offer and a very large catchment area, plus no flights at all to Germany other than from MAN, 60 miles away, LBA has some serious potential to any airline that takes a gamble on it. Perhaps there's some significance that Lufthansa were quoted as an example airline yesterday when discussing the need for airbridges?. Only time will tell.

 

[gulftraveller]

Same old story, if LH started ops from the correct airport, the airport that has the 4th largest population and 2nd financial centre, leeds, Then things im sure would be different.

These issues, plus an extended terminal do not really matter to an airline. It is total catchment which matters. In Germany, the two largest cities are Berlin and Hamburg. Neither is the largest airport in Germany. Munich is only the third largest city, whilst Frankfurt has a population of well below one million. It has a lot to do with accessibility.

I think it will be a while before we see LH expand again into the regions.

 

[White Heather]

These issues, plus an extended terminal do not really matter to an airline. It is total catchment which matters. In Germany, the two largest cities are Berlin and Hamburg. Neither is the largest airport in Germany. Munich is only the third largest city, whilst Frankfurt has a population of well below one million. It has a lot to do with accessibility.

I think it will be a while before we see LH expand again into the regions.

According to the current LBA CEO, his predecessor, the one before that, and the one before that, they very much do matter. They've all indicated that premium flag carriers such as Lufthansa, Air France, Iberia , Turkish etc. demand a certain level of experience for their passengers . It's been said that LBA had little chance of attracting them unless and until the terminals obvious deficiencies were rectified. Now, that's happening.

By 2025, the arrivals experience, by far LBAs weakest link, will be first class. The following year, the entire terminal will be vastly improved.

LBA has the catchment area without doubt. The problem is convincing airlines that this side of the Pennines is not just another part of MANs catchment area and one that can stand alone. Obviously LPL were able to convince Lufthansa they were something more than the MAN catchment area so there's no reason why LBA can't do likewise when the terminal upgrade is completed, which should
co-incide with Lufthansa's fleet availability returning to normal and the opening of a rail link via the new Parkway Station.

 

[lbaspotter]

According to the current LBA CEO, his predecessor, the one before that, and the one before that, they very much do matter. They've all indicated that premium flag carriers such as Lufthansa, Air France, Iberia , Turkish etc. demand a certain level of experience for their passengers . It's been said that LBA had little chance of attracting them unless and until the terminals obvious deficiencies were rectified. Now, that's happening.

By 2025, the arrivals experience, by far LBAs weakest link, will be first class. The following year, the entire terminal will be vastly improved.

LBA has the catchment area without doubt. The problem is convincing airlines that this side of the Pennines is not just another part of MANs catchment area and one that can stand alone. Obviously LPL were able to convince Lufthansa they were something more than the MAN catchment area so there's no reason why LBA can't do likewise when the terminal upgrade is completed, which should
co-incide with Lufthansa's fleet availability returning to normal and the opening of a rail link via the new Parkway Station.

If I remember correctly we can also add easyJet to that list of said airlines

 

[White Heather]

If I remember correctly we can also add easyJet to that list of said airlines

You recall correctly. 'No chance' of an LBA base with current terminal facilities as stated by Hywel Rees.

 

[Silvercity]

Perhaps you’ve missed this? This is from the airline itself:

Lufthansa is continuously evaluating and optimizing its entire route network. Due to unscheduled maintenance work on Pratt & Whitney engines in the Lufthansa Airbus A320neo fleet, Lufthansa Airlines will have significantly fewer aircraft available next year 2024 than originally planned. The company has therefore decided to suspend some routes from February 2024 that have not shown a positive economic development in recent months. One of the route that is affected by this suspension is Frankfurt - Liverpool. Lufthansa regrets this decision.
The cancellations will be published in the reservation systems on December 19, 2023 and passengers affected by cancellations will be informed and rebooked on alternative flights

And yet the fares charged are high. As a regular travellers I can comfirm this. Plus i know LH are telling LPL management they are happy with routes progress.

 

[Finger66]

I think as White Heather has already stated the truth lies somewhere between the airport and airline stance/viewpoints. Good LF doesn’t always translate into good yield either. Do actually think this could all be an odd choice cutting some of the regional routes as market share could easily be lost to other carriers. I am sure aircraft could have been freed up by reducing higher frequency routes so this does point to there being more to it. Time will of course tell re LH and their longer term regional committment

 

[Starflyer]

Ridiculous, didnt give it enough time!

The number of times you hear that, and always from people who aren't paying the bill (no matter how large it might be) to fund whatever operation it is! If you have something which isn't working, you can't sit there and keep hoping for a change in fortunes.

Where Lufthansa has capacity issues for next year with the A320 engine issues, you can be assured that they will not be cutting their most profitable routes because of the resulting capacity problems. The routes that have been cut are those at the bottom end of the performance scale. If Bristol and Liverpool didn't make it, I think the prospects of LH pushing more expansion into the UK regions - whether that be LBA or elsewhere - are incredibly remote. Would BRS and LPL have been cut if the A320 capacity problems hadn't arisen? Only LH know. But what you can safely conclude is that those routes were somewhere far down the list of top performers in the LH network.

 

[Len Fish]

Understand the Luftwaffe's load factors were shocking. Probably because they charged a bomb!

Plus due to cancellations passengers often got Stuk(a) at the airport.

 

[Finger66]

Was that because just like now, due to being battered by a Hurricane!

And if those pax didn't get away I bet they started to spit fire!

 

[Finger66]

As detailed on the Manchester Route Development forum, Turkish are increasing their MAN-IST service to 4 daily in S24. Initially the extra rotation starts at 4 weekly. Think this almost unfortunately tells us where LBA sits (or doesn't as the case is) on TK's radar

 

[gulftraveller]

THY have suggested that in the medium term, they are looking at GLA and NCL. I would think that BRS would also be in the picture somewhere down the line.

 

[Finger66]

Things a little quiet on this thread just now. Anyone have anything of serious note/potential to share?

 

[White Heather]

Things a little quiet on this thread just now. Anyone have anything of serious note/potential to share?

Nope!

 

[Finger66]

Probably helps explain why it's so quiet then

 

[lbaspotter]

It's very quiet, I've not even heard any interesting rumours to share lately either..

Well apart from that Freebird may have been replaced by another Turkish charter operator on TUI's Leeds - Dalaman route.

 

[Finger66]

See that BHX is losing its Brussels Airlines service at the end of next month. Declining pax numbers, which seems to be common for most UK airports to BRU. So that will be another flag carrier and route we can probably safely cross off the list

 

[LBA4EVER]

See that BHX is losing its Brussels Airlines service at the end of next month. Declining pax numbers, which seems to be common for most UK airports to BRU. So that will be another flag carrier and route we can probably safely cross off the list

Yes this brings back memories of sabena at LBA, plus the airline had a large uk presence until they ceased to be replaced by Brussels airlines.
From memory i believe sabena were looking to upgrade their service from LBA with avro jets?

 

[GolfFox]

Yes this brings back memories of sabena at LBA, plus the airline had a large uk presence until they ceased to be replaced by Brussels airlines.
From memory i believe sabena were looking to upgrade their service from LBA with avro jets?

They did - if I recall correctly there were three a day