Route Development & Rumours

[Aviador]

And that is the headline problem, runway length, TDZ and location.
If any middle east or north america service was to succeed the aircraft would need to be medium to large sized around the size of the B787-8 or A330

No it wouldn't.

 

[White Heather]

And that is the headline problem, runway length, TDZ and location.
If any middle east or north america service was to succeed the aircraft would need to be medium to large sized around the size of the B787-8 or A330

If that's the case, what's the point in the A321:XLR then? Developed by Airbus and ordered by airlines to operate longer distance routes that don't sustain wide body larger capacity operations? It's exactly what LBA needs and whilst there's no guarantee of success, LBA are in talks with airlines who have them on order.

 

[LBA4EVER]

No it wouldn't.

Oh Yes it would haha maxs not profitable and range issues, XLRs would probably be ok on distance but esp the middle east routes a bigger plane would be better for higher loads and profitability, would a pakistan or middle east route be as profitable as say a new york route? The Cost each pax pays per seat as freight aint going to pay on an XLR compared to say an A330.
The B777s, A350s and of course the A380s just too big for LBA and its runway so a medium to large aircraft such as the B787-8 would fit nicey into LBA.

 

[Len Fish]

Little point in operating a wide bodied aircraft on a route that can’t sustain it passenger wise. It’s horses for courses and with over 500 XLRs on order the airlines can obviously see a use for it on longer distance routes with thinner passenger demand. Of course whether that means we’ll ever attract long haul airlines back to LBA remains to be seen.

 

[Bigman]

I wonder how much freight Jetblue carry on their A321NX out of Heathrow or Air Transat with their A321NX across the pond?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

None I would say.

 

[Jerry]

I wonder how much freight Jetblue carry on their A321NX out of Heathrow or Air Transat with their A321NX across the pond?

I'd expect that any freight would be small high value items.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Little point in operating a wide bodied aircraft on a route that can’t sustain it passenger wise. It’s horses for courses and with over 500 XLRs on order the airlines can obviously see a use for it on longer distance routes with thinner passenger demand. Of course whether that means we’ll ever attract long haul airlines back to LBA remains to be seen.

Its a question of whether our 'target' airlines arw getting 321xlr's- Fly Dubai for example.

I'd expect that any freight would be small high value items.

Even small packages wouldnt be viable to/from Leeds. There are no cargo facilities and its not worth getting any unless there are substantial amounts being carried.

I'd expect that any freight would be small high value items.

Even small packages wouldnt be viable to/from Leeds. There are no cargo facilities and its not worth getting any unless there are substantial amounts being carried.

 

[Iron Duck]

Air Transat seem relatively open minded to regional Europe, opening up stations that nobody else seems to touch, and obviously have a rich history of UK service - something like a 3 weekly A321 in the summer to test the waters sounds plausible.

Going eastbound, before seriously thinking about Dubai, we should be focused on getting Turkish to Istanbul on the departure boards. Much more achievable in the short to medium term imho

 

[Aviador]

I stand corrected then. I will put my 12,000 hours experience in the bin

Well I'm not going to argue with you or question your credentials. I'm not a pilot and have never said as such, but can you explain how Tui operated those flights to SSH then. What I said was on the basis of what we have been told by the airport. In any case, flights to Dubai or similar destinations wouldn't necessarily have to be on a 737-MAX. I already know Qatar won't bring the 787 to Leeds because of company restrictions but there are many other options and alternatives carriers that might find LBA an attractive proposition.

Its a question of whether our 'target' airlines arw getting 321xlr's- Fly Dubai for example.


Even small packages wouldnt be viable to/from Leeds. There are no cargo facilities and its not worth getting any unless there are substantial amounts being carried.


Even small packages wouldnt be viable to/from Leeds. There are no cargo facilities and its not worth getting any unless there are substantial amounts being carried.

The cargo option really depends on the type of service an airline chooses to operate. I know you are experienced in the cargo field but your experience must be over 20 years out of date now. The industry has changed substantially in that time.

 

[Jerry]

Air Transat seem relatively open minded to regional Europe, opening up stations that nobody else seems to touch, and obviously have a rich history of UK service - something like a 3 weekly A321 in the summer to test the waters sounds plausible.

Going eastbound, before seriously thinking about Dubai, we should be focused on getting Turkish to Istanbul on the departure boards. Much more achievable in the short to medium term imho

Air Transat focus will be on the destination as a holiday destination for Canadians. They might see Yorkshire as being covered by their Manchester service. For Eastbound routes the challenge will be finding an airline that doesn't want to dilute its Manchester or Newcastle operations.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Does anyone know why air transat stopped their LBA-toronto service?
Their A321s would be ideal out of LBA.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Well I'm not going to argue with you or question your credentials. I'm not a pilot and have never said as such, but can you explain how Tui operated those flights to SSH then. What I said was on the basis of what we have been told by the airport. In any case, flights to Dubai or similar destinations wouldn't necessarily have to be on a 737-MAX. I already know Qatar won't bring the 787 to Leeds because of company restrictions but there are many other options and alternatives carriers that might find LBA an attractive proposition.


The cargo option really depends on the type of service an airline chooses to operate. I know you are experienced in the cargo field but your experience must be over 20 years out of date now. The industry has changed substantially in that time.

Cargo and Customs actually and I only left the industry 3 years ago. Even now I still keep abreast of developments. In fact I spent a morning at our Heathrow office only 2 weeks ago! What makes you think there have been substantial changes?

 

[ChrisBBB]

Does anyone know why air transat stopped their LBA-toronto service?
Their A321s would be ideal out of LBA.

I think it reduced everywhere. There were numerous airlines from Manchester at one point, some times on the same day.
But understand as the ex pats died off / returned back to the UK, their demand and that of their families just diminished to the levels they’re at now (as always, stand to be corrected)

 

[White Heather]

Does anyone know why air transat stopped their LBA-toronto service?
Their A321s would be ideal out of LBA.

As stated by Chris BB. The Air Transat LBA flights operated by 757s were not scheduled, they were charters operated in behalf of Globespan Holidays and the demand gradually diminished as ex pats aged and died with far fewer UK trips to Canada as a result. Plenty of smaller airports lost their flights to Toronto as a result.
Remember Air Transat only flew from LBA for a year or two. The Globespan flights were operated by various airlines post 1989 when Wardair ceased ops including Odyssey, Nationair and Caledonian . Air Transat had of course also briefly operated a weekly Tristar in 1986/7 (or thereabouts) for another operator in competition with Globespan but that soon ended.

 

[mullion]

There is a market for smaller aircraft to ME look at Kuwait and Jordanian A319/320 at MAN and soon to start Arkia with a 738 but runway length might be more of a problem

 

[LBA4EVER]

As stated by Chris BB. The Air Transat LBA flights operated by 757s were not scheduled, they were charters operated in behalf of Globespan Holidays and the demand gradually diminished as ex pats aged and died with far fewer UK trips to Canada as a result. Plenty of smaller airports lost their flights to Toronto as a result.
Remember Air Transat only flew from LBA for a year or two. The Globespan flights were operated by various airlines post 1989 when Wardair ceased ops including Odyssey, Nationair and Caledonian . Air Transat had of course also briefly operated a weekly Tristar in 1986/7 (or thereabouts) for another operator in competition with Globespan but that soon ended.

I also recall as a little one at the time looking out the windows of westfield primary school at a worldways L1011 and remember once catching a nationair DC8 at the cemetery rd view point instead of the usual 757s!
The things i can remember haha

 

[Aviador]

There is a market for smaller aircraft to ME look at Kuwait and Jordanian A319/320 at MAN and soon to start Arkia with a 738 but runway length might be more of a problem

We had a one off Qatar A320 operate into Leeds so it might be possible, at leased with the XLR varients.

 

[gulftraveller]

Qatar had A319LRs but they have now gone. The A321s on order are not XLRs so could not do it. For longer European routes, it seems to be that it’s 787/8 or nothing.

 

[mullion]

The Jordanian A319 and A320 are quite old aircraft and neither are NEOs