Route Development & Rumours

[LBAYORKIE]

I asked the cargo question LBAYORKIE as I don't recall this being discussed on here at the time PIA had their service running. The fact that they had a cargo operation of sorts, even with the complications you mentioned, makes me assume that IPS would have taken that sort of thing into account at some stage. They may well still be winging it however. In an earlier post lbaspotter asked some, what I consider, pertinent questions which when answered (if answered) could well clarify things further. We shall have to wait, again, and see but thank you for clearing up the cargo question even if we ignore the Hi-lift and Swissport questions for the time being.

At the time PIA and Shaheen were operating the airport had all the necessary facilities at their cargo centre. Subsequently this closed and the airport went from being a fully equipped air cargo facility with approved Customs premises to having nothing at all.

 

[White Heather]

At the last committee meeting, the CEO did say that they see LBA as having the potential to handle a decent amount of cargo, so presumably the have 'plans'.

 

[Aviador]

I'm in agreement with what you say @LBAYORKIE but establishing a new cargo operation is not going to happen with a sole airline operator so for the benefit of the discussion we have established it is entirely possible for cargo ops ex LBA albeit somewhat more complicated than it needs to be. Essentially wherever the bonded warehouse is, the goods must be transferred between the aircraft and the bonded warehouse in a sealed unit. That's not a major obstacle and if IPS becomes more than a paper airline it might explain why they also chose EMA to operate from other than LBA. A couple of hours by road to EMA is a nuisance not necessarily a hinderance.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I'm in agreement with what you say @LBAYORKIE but if establishing a new cargo operation is not going to happen with a sole airline operator so for the benefit of the discussion we have established it is entirely possible for cargo ops ex LBA albeit somewhat complicated. Essentially wherever the bonded warehouse is, the goods must be transferred in a sealed unit. That's not a major obstacle and if IPS becomes more than a paper airline it might explain why they chose EMA for it's second base other than LBA. A couple of hours by road to EMA is a nuisance not necessarily a hinderance.

As you suggest where theres a will there is a way but I feel the complication and cost would rule it out. Forwarders wont buy in to a convoluted process when a more straight forward alternative is available ie put business through another airline.

I suspect IPS will simply assume that LBA have a cargo facility- why would they think it hasnt?

We have to remember its up to the airport to facilitate the airline so it wont be IPS who are going to set everything up, they will expect it to be laid on for them.

The airport knew the consequences of not having a cargo facility when it was announced the cargo facility was to close riughly 4 years ago- I know because some colleagues and I representing the British International Freight Association had a meeting with the persons responsible at LBA. Needless to say they didnt have the first inkling about cargo and I suspect that still the case today.

 

[White Heather]

As you suggest where theres a will there is a way but I feel the complication and cost would rule it out. Forwarders wont buy in to a convoluted process when a more straight forward alternative is available ie put business through another airline.

I suspect IPS will simply assume that LBA have a cargo facility- why would they think it hasnt?

We have to remember its up to the airport to facilitate the airline so it wont be IPS who are going to set everything up, they will expect it to be laid on for them.

The airport knew the consequences of not having a cargo facility when it was announced the cargo facility was to close riughly 4 years ago- I know because some colleagues and I representing the British International Freight Association had a meeting with the persons responsible at LBA. Needless to say they didnt have the first inkling about cargo and I suspect that still the case today.

You make it sound as though LBA just decided to shut down the cargo operation at LBA. They didn't. The company that dealt with cargo decided to pack up and go, and LBA tried and failed to find a company to replace them. Hardly surprising given that the airport had very little cargo once PIA stopped operations in 2014.

I can assure you that the current airport management are very aware of the need for cargo facilities at LBA. It's not as though they don't understand airports! They operate as part owners at NCL and LTN and own Melbourne Airport. I think you will find that Vincent Hodder is very clued up on cargo but it's a chicken and egg situation. To attract cargo handling agents, you need cargo. To attract cargo carrying airlines, you need cargo facilities and ideally, agents to handle it all.

But don't assume that just because you were unimpressed with LBA management 5 years ago that the current team don't know as much as you do. They are all different people. Only one if the management team then remains at LBA.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Without wishing to highjack this thread we have the same problem over in Manchester. The airport owners appear to have little, if no, interest in freight only flights and also has no "high/low" loader for main-deck cargo aircraft. Their view appears to be that EMA is THE MAG cargo airport, followed by STN.

Rant over.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

You make it sound as though LBA just decided to shut down the cargo operation at LBA. They didn't. The company that dealt with cargo decided to pack up and go, and LBA tried and failed to find a company to replace them. Hardly surprising given that the airport had very little cargo once PIA stopped operations in 2014.

I can assure you that the current airport management are very aware of the need for cargo facilities at LBA. It's not as though they don't understand airports! They operate as part owners at NCL and LTN and own Melbourne Airport. I think you will find that Vincent Hodder is very clued up on cargo but it's a chicken and egg situation. To attract cargo handling agents, you need cargo. To attract cargo carrying airlines, you need cargo facilities and ideally, agents to handle it all.

But don't assume that just because you were unimpressed with LBA management 5 years ago that the current team don't know as much as you do. They are all different people. Only one if the management team then remains at LBA.

There were a number of factors at play and to give them their due the airport did try to get another company to operate the facilities, without success.

It was clear the only way to keep the facility open was for the airport to take it over and run it at a loss until such time as they could attract a wide body operator, cargo airline or significantly reduce the levy they made every airline carrying cargo pay (which is partly why KLM and BMI stopped carrying cargo)

All I did was make them aware of the consequences of not having a cargo operation.

I know there are new people in charge now but even at that time I was told (by someone on the forum) that one of the directors was ex EMA and knew a thing or two about cargo operations. He didnt.

Im hoping someone with experience exists within the current team and is given responsibilty for keeping an eye on the evolving situation and working on a 'plan B' if one wasnt already prepared by the outgoing team.

If they havent got anyone experienced I would be happy to help.

 

[White Heather]

There were a number of factors at play and to give them their due the airport did try to get another company to operate the facilities, without success.

It was clear the only way to keep the facility open was for the airport to take it over and run it at a loss until such time as they could attract a wide body operator, cargo airline or significantly reduce the levy they made every airline carrying cargo pay (which is partly why KLM and BMI stopped carrying cargo)

All I did was make them aware of the consequences of not having a cargo operation.

I know there are new people in charge now but even at that time I was told (by someone on the forum) that one of the directors was ex EMA and knew a thing or two about cargo operations. He didnt.

Im hoping someone with experience exists within the current team and is given responsibilty for keeping an eye on the evolving situation and working on a 'plan B' if one wasnt already prepared by the outgoing team.

If they havent got anyone experienced I would be happy to help.

Why not make that offer to Vincent Hodder? He may not take you up on it right away, but he might in the future. He won't know you're happy to help unless you write and make the offer.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Note for LBA4EVER. I wouldn't bother going to the viewing point on Saturday if I were you.

Im not that daft you no! Haha as it happens im actually at the hawthorne pub early, mid sat afternoon anyway with the family. If any A330 was to touch the lba runway then im sure many on here would no about its expected arrival before hand.

 

[Aviador]

@LBAYORKIE again, not disagreeing with you but don't forget, airlines transfered freight between Heathrow and Leeds Bradford by road for many years. In fact the amount of "air freight" has been very low for a long time. Again, not suggesting the idea floated previously is an ideal solution but it is a solution. @Scottie Dog is right, for the North of England, East Midlands is likely to remain the main cargo hub and personally I don't see much point in trying to pretend LBA can somehow seriously tap into that market. Even looking long term, say if LBA acquired flights to Dubai and New York, its probable there still won't be enough freight business to facilitate a dedicated freight operation onsite.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Without wishing to highjack this thread we have the same problem over in Manchester. The airport owners appear to have little, if no, interest in freight only flights and also has no "high/low" loader for main-deck cargo aircraft. Their view appears to be that EMA is THE MAG cargo airport, followed by STN.

Rant over.

Gone are the days of ABC and Dragonair unfortunately. Plenty of belly hold cargo passes through the cargo centre though.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

@LBAYORKIE again, not disagreeing with you but don't forget, airlines transfered freight between Heathrow and Leeds Bradford by road for many years. In fact the amont of "air freight" has been very low for a long time. Again, not suggesting the idea floated previously is an ideal solution but it is a solution. @Scottie Dog is right, for the North of England, East Midlands is likely to remain the main cargo hub and personally I don't see much point in trying to pretend LBA can somehow seriously tap into that market. Even looking long term, say if LBA acquired flights to Dubai and New York, its probable there still won't be enough freight business to facilitate a dedicated freight operation onsite.

Yes, most was trucked but it still justified the export and import handling facility. Newcastle only has a cargo operation because of Emirates so that gives an indication of whats needed- is that a daily 777?

The other thing is I am told the bigger airlines such as Emirates have handling contracts with agents (eg Dnata) that compels them to open a cargo facility at each airport they fly to, if they don't have one already.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Yes, most was trucked but it still justified the export and import handling facility. Newcastle only has a cargo operation because of Emirates so that gives an indication of whats needed- is that a daily 777?

The other thing is I am told the bigger airlines such as Emirates have handling contracts with agents (eg Dnata) that compels them to open a cargo facility at each airport they fly to, if they don't have one already.

Incidentally imports were also trucked from the continent. Some days I had 3 Air France trucks from ORY (where the 'Pelican' B747 freighters were based) each loaded with several upper deck pallets, plus trucks from London.

 

[SierraHotel]

 

[Len Fish]

Hmmmm…..,!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Very well spotted!
Presumably this is based on a press release by IPS to the media. I wonder when LBA and EMA will be making corresponding announcements.

 

[ls27]

Goodness gracious me!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Wow its making headline news in pakistan, everyone but lba announcing this new service, typical LBA! Are the airport even aware haha
Its good to see our route development forum busy atm with numerous new routes and airlines!

 

[Aviador]

Hold your horses, since when did Pakistan news agencies start broadcasting using the BBC news intro???

 

[Severn]

Wow its making headline news in pakistan, everyone but lba announcing this new service, typical LBA! Are the airport even aware haha
Its good to see our route development forum busy atm with numerous new routes and airlines!

When you say headline news, have you checked out this “news” outlet. It seems like it’s another one-man-band company…. As aviador mentioned - the intro music is ripped from the BBC - suggesting this is less mainstream and more amateur hour.

Until a more reliable source comes up with concrete evidence that these flights are to take place, I certainly wouldn’t advise anyone to part with any money.