Route Development & Rumours

[CM.]

With Lufthansa it's going to be more a case of onward connections with Manchester so close for a big part of the Yorkshire population they may feel the area is covered.

They fly from LPL which is a lot closer to MAN. I don’t see why that’s a reason.

 

[Jerry]

They fly from LPL which is a lot closer to MAN. I don’t see why that’s a reason.

Yep with no competition plus LPL may have a draw that LBA doesn't. Liverpool Football Club which has a pretty big fanbase around the world especially the Far East so it's possible they may be looking at that the connections going too Liverpool rather than from it.

 

[CM.]

Yep with no competition

Reykjavik with play and Dublin with Aer Lingus seems like competition to me.

Frankfurt or Munich could work well for LBA with LH…

 

[Jerry]

Reykjavik with play and Dublin with Aer Lingus seems like competition to me.

Frankfurt or Munich could work well for LBA with LH…

Not too Europe, Africa or the Far East.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Poor infrastructure at LBA and bad stigma throughout the industry im afraid to say is once again the great hurdle we cannot clear, again its staring us in the face but many cant seem to understand this.
Ok i agree the airport is doing fantastic at present but its an absolute certainly that it could do one hell of alot better.
Ok we have jet2 and Ryanair with their ever increasing offerings of flights to new destinations and increased frequency, yes we have EI and EZY to the belfast airports and dublin which appear to be successful although like many state they do well due to a sea thats in the way!
Then we have wizz and tui that lets face it were given to us ( if anyone has proof wizz were looking at lba when dsa was open id be interested), but other than the above what else do we have..
We seriously lack national flag carriers to key European hub airports ie lufthansa to frankfurt, Brussels airlines to brussels,
Other low cost carriers out there such as PLAY and even easyjet seem to be avoiding LBA and lets face it even tui are still ignoring us, there is an endless list of airlines that just dont seem interested in the airport.
Yet our LBA is set in the 4th most populated conurbation home to one of englands largest cities and the largest financial centre outside london, MAN is not the problem, its a combination of poor leadership in this region over the decades which in a way has led to the shabby infrastructure we have plus location and weather issues. The industry is very aware of LBA but it comes with risk.
We can keep posting on here our wish lists of new airlines and routes but until something serious is done to improve our airport nothing will ever change, the expanding of the not fit for purpose 1960s terminal will help but will it be enough??

 

[A400]

Problem with AMS is that they’re reducing movements because of Noise/Pollution and also I’ve heard they’re keeping the passenger cap. I’m not sure how that will effect the KLM flights going forward but means less choices at AMS so surely FRA would be an ideal alternative plus it has good links with Africa also like KLM do.

 

[White Heather]

With Lufthansa it's going to be more a case of onward connections with Manchester so close for a big part of the Yorkshire population they may feel the area is covered.

Yet they also fly from Liverpool! They operate from two airports in the North West, 30 miles apart, yet Yorkshire and the Humber, some parts if which are 100 mIles from MAN are considered to be adequately covered?

Sorry, I dont buy it. For far too long we have had this excuse as to why we dont have flights from LBA.

 

[Jerry]

Yet they also fly from Liverpool! They operate from two airports in the North West, 30 miles apart, yet Yorkshire and the Humber, some parts if huch are 100 mIles from MAN are considered to be adequately covered?

Sorry, I dont buy it. For far too long we have had this excuse as to why we dont have flights from LBA.

The big bulk of the population of Yorkshire runs along the M62 which isn't that far from Manchester and easy too get too.
Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield, Halifax, Wakefield, Castleford. Sheffield isn't that far away either. I picked my sister up the other day from MAN and it took about 1 hour 20 minutes one way to get too the airport. Manchester and Yorkshire are surprisingly quite close. So it's quite possible an airline might well look at MAN and think they've got Yorkshire covered.

With Liverpool it's quite possible Lufthansa operates there for a specific reason ie specific inbound demand maybe for the city of Liverpool. If LBA is too attract an airline like Lufthansa then it may well be inbound traffic too Yorkshire as a specific destination that may well be what Lufthansa looks at.

 

[White Heather]

The big bulk of the population of Yorkshire runs along the M62 which isn't that far from Manchester and easy too get too.
Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield, Halifax, Wakefield, Castleford. Sheffield isn't that far away either. I picked my sister up the other day from MAN and it took about 1 hour 20 minutes one way to get too the airport. Manchester and Yorkshire are surprisingly quite close. So it's quite possible an airline might well look at MAN and think they've got Yorkshire covered.

With Liverpool it's quite possible Lufthansa operates there for a specific reason ie specific inbound demand maybe for the city of Liverpool. If LBA is too attract an airline like Lufthansa then it may well be inbound traffic too Yorkshire as a specific destination that may well be what Lufthansa looks at.

Sorry, still not convinced. Leeds itself is the second biggest financial centre in the UK and 3rd biggest city in the UK by population, and Bradford, which I believe us the 6th biggest, is next door. It's close to York, a major tourist attraction too

You were lucky with your trip to MAN. On another day it could be a nightmare. One accident on the M62 is all it needs, and we all know the proportion of Trans Pennine trains cancelled, including those to MAN. The Yorkshire Region shouldn't have to settle for travelling over the Pennines to catch a daily flight to FRA. Or DUS - a route that Flybe did well with until they went bust. Or MUN.

If LPL can sustain a daily Embraer, with MAN just up the road, then LBA can .

 

[Jerry]

You were lucky with your trip to MAN. On another day it could be a nightmare. One accident on the M62

I travel the M62 a lot as part of my job and like any motorway in the UK it has it's good and bad days.

The Yorkshire Region shouldn't have to settle for travelling over the Pennines to catch a daily Embraer to FRA. Or DUS - a route that Flybe did well with until they went bust. Or MUN.

Yet the airlines don't seem too want too serve the region directly (a problem other airports have) and the people from the region seem quite happy too travel over too the airlines at MAN or even further afield if necessary and LBA seems unable too attract them. I know people will blame the infrastructure but were hardly talking about masses of flights. So why are airlines like Lufthansa not willing too fly too LBA? There has too be a reason.

 

[White Heather]

I travel the M62 a lot as part of my job and like any motorway in the UK it has it's good and bad days.

Yet the airlines don't seem too want too serve the region directly (a problem other airports have) and the people from the region seem quite happy too travel over too the airlines at MAN or even further afield if necessary and LBA seems unable too attract them. I know people will blame the infrastructure but were hardly talking about masses of flights. So why are airlines like Lufthansa not willing too fly too LBA? There has too be a reason.

People are not happy to travel over the Pennines. They do so because they have no choice. That's not an assumption you can make. My daughter, for example, recently flew MAN to FRA and return, was less than happy at having to travel from MAN rather than LBA. It considerably lengthened her journey both ways. She lives in Yeadon, 1 mile from LBA.

If LBA is to reach it's goal if 7m pax annually by 2032, they won't do it relying on Jet2 Ryanair and Wizz. Flights to Germany, a scheduled service daily to Paris and other European city routes such as Madrid are needed to supplement what our current airlines operate.

 

[Jerry]

People are not happy to travel over the Pennines. They do so because they have no choice.

Airlines won't see it that way though will they? They will see that people are happy too travel too MAN because they use the service offered there.

My daughter, for example, recently flew MAN to FRA and return, was less than happy at having to travel from MAN rather than LBA.

Did she not look at using KLM?

If LBA is to reach it's goal if 7m pax annually by 2032, they won't do it relying on Jet2 Ryanair and Wizz. Flights to Germany, a scheduled service daily to Paris and other European city routes such as Madrid are needed to supplement what our current airlines operate.

That's the challenge the airport has, how too convince airlines like Lufthansa, Air France etc too operate from LBA when previously they've been content for passengers too go too MAN.

 

[White Heather]

Did she not look at using KLM?

Yes. She had booked KLM from LBA but the flight was cancelled due to the movement limitations at AMS. That meant her connection to Nuremberg was no good. So they had to re-book from MAN via FRA.

 

[tonysmith]

They don’t call it the M62 car park for nothing lol. !!

 

[Finger66]

Back to Germany as a whole, DUS did relatively well for LS and then BE mk1 and bmi regional were about to introduce MUC just before their demise. So German demand is there and as is pointed out above, if AMS cap staying then now is the ideal time for FRA. There would be connections, tourism and business (especially finance related) that would use the route

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I just dont get why LH are prepared to dilute MAN traffic by opening LPL but not dilute it by flying from LBA. Maybe LPL have a better marketing team, maybe they offer incentives, who knows?

Its a shame the LBA marketing team arent more open about why they seem to be so unsucessful at attracting new airlines. I find it very frustrating. Could a question be tabled at the next joint committee meeting?

 

[Nethercote2019]

I’m not sure LH have enough staff at the moment for published schedules let alone more, I’ve noticed many Munich flights to U.K. being cancelled

 

[Coathanger16]

Poor infrastructure at LBA

No. There are 5/6 Star airlines flying to 3rd world airports with poorer infrastructure than LBA. Why? Because there is demand. If there is sufficient demand, an airline will serve a particular route. End of.

Problem with AMS is that they’re reducing movements because of Noise/Pollution and also I’ve heard they’re keeping the passenger cap.

And the industry is now launching a legal challenge against the Dutch government over this:

KLM, Delta and easyJet take legal action against Schiphol capacity cap – Business Traveller

In a joint statement the carriers called the Dutch government’s decision to limit flights on environmental grounds “incomprehensible”…

www.businesstraveller.com

Yet they also fly from Liverpool! They operate from two airports in the North West, 30 miles apart, yet Yorkshire and the Humber, some parts if which are 100 mIles from MAN are considered to be adequately covered?

Sorry, I dont buy it. For far too long we have had this excuse as to why we dont have flights from LBA.

As I pointed out in a previous post, even with Lufthansa at LPL, Leeds has almost 4 times as much capacity to hubs as LPL. Before Lufthansa, LPL's access to hubs was basically MAN. To compare the two is comparing apples and oranges. Even with Lufthansa, LPLs hub capacity is behind LBA, hence why Aer Lingus is launching a DUB-LPL route.

Yes a FRA route would serve the LBA - Germany market, but a large part will be connecting passengers. Even if Lufthansa thought they could get more P2P passengers at LBA, if overall they could get more from LPL because of the lack of competition there then LPL would make more sense.

Since the pandemic Lufthansa has launched at least 4 new routes to the UK from FRA: Liverpool, Belfast City, Bristol and Gatwick. They are aware of the size of the UK market. Looking at the UK network, there is a now obvious gap in Yorkshire and the Humber area, as well as the "far" South West. Lufthansa will likely review how their new UK routes perform this summer and next, and I don't see why LBA wouldn't be next on their list of UK airports to serve (from FRA anyway - they may launch more routes from MUC first).

If LPL can sustain a daily Embraer, with MAN just up the road, then LBA can .

At LPL, they're competing with MAN. At LBA, they'd be competing with MAN and KLM at LBA. You have valid arguments about the size of the Yorkshire markets, but I suspect globally, Liverpool has more of a tourism pull than Leeds. As @Jerry has pointed out, the pandemic has had a profound impact on business travel. Demand for business travel has to be better than ever to justify a new route.

People are not happy to travel over the Pennines. They do so because they have no choice.

Frustrating that your daughter had her AMS flight cancelled, however doing what she intended to do is the key. If nobody from Yorkshire flew from MAN and only flew from LBA, whether that be non-stop or with a connection, the airport would have a wealth of data to take to airlines to support launching a particular route. I would amend @Jerry post to say people are "prepared" to travel across to MAN rather than "happy" - nuance of the English language when trying to make a particular point.

They don’t call it the M62 car park for nothing lol. !!

Heathrow. M25.
Gatwick. M23.
Birmingham. M42.

Most large UK airports suffer the same.

I just dont get why LH are prepared to dilute MAN traffic by opening LPL but not dilute it by flying from LBA.

As far as I'm aware, LH haven't reduced capacity to MAN, so I doubt they view it as diluting traffic at MAN. Yes they may loose some PAX at MAN, but they'd still be flying with LH, and they'd probably add more pax at LPL than they'd lose at MAN.

 

[A400]

And the industry is now launching a legal challenge against the Dutch government over this:

Of course as it seems ridiculous. The last year of pax restrictions and now this.. it also means the airlines are not able to operate their full schedules.

 

[HX3]

Any of the hub airports served by an interlining airline would be a major boost to LBA, but in the interim I’m surprised that the likes of Ryanair haven’t thrown in a cheeky couple of German routes. Short sectors, could work well filling in any schedule gaps and could serve to prove demand is there. Baden Baden, Dortmund, Berlin and Memmingham would cover the Ruhr, the wine routes, Bavarian Alps and the capital - all reasonable tourist destinations.