Route Development & Rumours

[lbaspotter]

Antalya with Southwind Airlines makes alot of sense as it's there main HQ & operating base .

From a personal experience the Antalya region covers a massive area and the tourist/holiday market is really building up to cater for the growth. You've only just got to look how busy Antalya Airport is now.

I think the will be plenty of room for all 4+ operators next summer 2024.

TUi/Freebird - A320 = 2x weekly (Wed & Sun)
Sun Express - B738 = 3x Weekly (Wed, Fri & Sun)
Holiday best/Southwind Airlines - B7M8 = 1x weekly (Wed)
Jet2/Jet2holidays - B738 = 7x weekly (1x daily Mon-Sun)

 

[752]

I notice they are serving Egypt from some airports- I wonder why Leeds has been overlooked?

Are they using their own charter flights for Egypt? from what I can see (just looked at MAN) they're using seats on the TUI flights.

I do think there is a market for Egypt from LBA, shame we have never managed to get that one back.

 

[White Heather]

Interesting to see that Southwind Airlines is only a year old, and was set up primarily to operate to Russia, to prevent the loss of Russian tourists to Turkey due to the impact of the invasion of Ukraine. It later started charter flights to Germany but only operates to those two countries from Antalya. It has a mixed fleet of Airbus and Boeing , with 14 aircraft in the fleet.

 

[Len Fish]

I wonder who is behind the Airline and funding it? It has sprung up out of nowhere and acquired a fleet of 14. The Russian connection may provide a clue?

 

[ls27]

As far as I have read, the US has banned them from flying into Russia with the 737s, It is not illegal to fly there, but the sanctions by the US would be severe.

 

[rollo]

AO wonder who is behind the Airline and funding it? It has sprung up out of nowhere and acquired a fleet of 14. The Russian connection may provide a clue?

It appears having read a report on CH Aviation that the ownership of Southwinds is by Russian airline Nordwind Airlines who obtained a Turkish AOC as a way round international sanctions on Russia in 2022 due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Pegas Touristik are an affiliated company selling on behalf of Southwinds.

As far as I have read, the US has banned them from flying into Russia with the 737s, It is not illegal to fly there, but the sanctions by the US would be severe.

The articles states the USA lifted sanctions on a temporary basis (whatever that means) on 19th July.
The rest of the article is behind a pay wall.

Ethically personally I wouldn't choose to travel with them.

 

[HX3]

Russia is subject to targeted sanctions, this means it is prohibited to transact with certain high profile individuals, entities and products. This includes all products that can be considered dual use - ie machinery that could be used in a defence product, even if that isn’t its normal use. Economic sanctions restrict most services. For the aviation sector, this means that airplanes registered in Russia or elsewhere and leased or rented to a Russian citizen or entity cannot land at any EU airports and cannot fly over EU countries. Private aircraft, e.g. private business jets, are also included in the ban. By EU this also applies to the UK as we follow OFAC and money laundering directives, and in the main haven’t deviated from EU rules. Having a separate entity, with aircraft owned by the Turkish entity clearly circumvents these rules, but cash flow certainly would not, this would be monitored and subject to strict restrictions. So they must be fully operating and keeping funds in Turkey.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Russia is subject to targeted sanctions, this means it is prohibited to transact with certain high profile individuals, entities and products. This includes all products that can be considered dual use - ie machinery that could be used in a defence product, even if that isn’t its normal use. Economic sanctions restrict most services. For the aviation sector, this means that airplanes registered in Russia or elsewhere and leased or rented to a Russian citizen or entity cannot land at any EU airports and cannot fly over EU countries. Private aircraft, e.g. private business jets, are also included in the ban. By EU this also applies to the UK as we follow OFAC and money laundering directives, and in the main haven’t deviated from EU rules. Having a separate entity, with aircraft owned by the Turkish entity clearly circumvents these rules, but cash flow certainly would not, this would be monitored and subject to strict restrictions. So they must be fully operating and keeping funds in

DId you say Airplanes?

 

[HX3]

I did lol, I stand corrected, aeroplane

 

[Aviador]

There’s talk of possible new routes across a selection of bases for Summer 2024. Wonder if LBA will get anything interesting if true.

Can the 737-800s make it to Egypt?

 

[YorkshireLad]

Can the 737-800s make it to Egypt?

Plenty of B737-800s operate from the UK to Egypt including to Manchester so they'll be fine

 

[Kevin Farnell]

They never had the opportunity. They understood they had a deal with Flybe for a 2 aircraft base and by the time they found out that wasn't happening, Flybe had already done a deal with DSA.

That said, certainly now, it's not LBA policy to subsidise airlines.

Note - the above is quoted from the DSA forum.

Is it really the case that LBA don't offer subsidies on new routes? Almost all airports (except the most heavily slot restricted e.g. LHR) will offer reduced landing fees for new services. These fees gradually increase over a couple of years or so until they reach a pre-agreed amount with the airport. This allows the new route to grow and hopefully become fully established. Most airlines probably never pay the full landing/handling fees published by the airport, having a negotiated a deal. If LBA are really so against this, it could well explain the absence of the likes of AF, LH and TK.

 

[White Heather]

I can only state what the CEO stated to the Consultative Committee. I do think that they may well discount landing fees for MAX & NEO aircraft types to encourage the Airlines to use them . But not subsidise an airline to attract them.

 

[SNOWMAN]

white heather
that could be the reason logan air are not at lba.
sm

 

[Aviador]

I don't believe any airline should be subsidised. Certainly beyond the initial start-up period.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I don't believe any airline should be subsidised. Certainly beyond the initial start-up period.

The airport just has to do whatever is necessary. No good refusing to subsidise on principle if thats the industry norm.

 

[Finger66]

white heather
that could be the reason logan air are not at lba.
sm

Unfortunately there are not enough Loganair's around to tap into the LBA potential. Flybe were about to do it before DSA subsidised them and look what still happened. LBA are in my eyes taking the right stance, but anyone willing to take a punt on LBA could make a killing with the right timings/frequencies and aircraft types. We have covered these before and it beggars belief they are still absent. So here's hoping someone is ready to jump on board...............

 

[yorkguy]

Anyone holding their breath for the return of Monarch given recent media reports?!

 

[Finger66]

In a word - No

 

[Aviador]

Speculating about the routes we might gain once the airport terminal is developed. What destinations do you think LBA will gain on completion of X25?

I'm going to be optimistic and go for Orlando, Cancun and a return of PIA or an alternative Islamabad service.

European I'd say a return of Madrid, schedule flights to Paris, Berlin and Athens.

I would say all are realistic.