Hainan Airlines

[Dobbo]

Lamentable from our perspective, we want to see a direct flight to Shanghai and it looks like one airline (CA) might be frustrating another (HU) from launching.

From their perspective, if HU want to launch PVG-MAN, CA can extract something of value from HU for that right. Frustrating, but that's business. Best thing MAN can do is make an overwhelming case so that CA decide to launch the route...

 

[ethanegcc]

Lamentable from our perspective, we want to see a direct flight to Shanghai and it looks like one airline (CA) might be frustrating another (HU) from launching.

From their perspective, if HU want to launch PVG-MAN, CA can extract something of value from HU for that right. Frustrating, but that's business. Best thing MAN can do is make an overwhelming case so that CA decide to launch the route...

Unfortunately, yes. I think Hainan has also annoyed other Chinese airlines (of which CA may be included) - a particular example was CTU-LAX - in terms of slots so that may be another sticking point. Additionally, Air China is the national airline of China so may be more preferable in terms of which slots are given to who in China's economic powerhouse.

 

[Brum X]

At least you are not in the BHX situation where the Hainan group of airlines launch a "Scheduled Charter" flight which some sources have confirmed Hainan now own the rights on BHX-PEK and then launch a "proper" scheduled flight from our big rival up north. How frustrating is that but hey ho that is buisness. But yes i agree this chinese situation really gets on my nerves.

 

[Coathanger16]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that only one Chinese airline is allowed to operate a certain route (e.g. with Hainan operating MAN-PEK, no other Chinese airline can operate that route).

Could someone please explain the logic behind that?

Clearly if two airlines start a route at the same time, it could provide too much capacity, meaning both airlines struggle and pull out, again leaving the route unserved. But equally with just one airline operating a route, it gives them pretty much a complete monopoly over that route.

 

[rutamkrd]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that only one Chinese airline is allowed to operate a certain route (e.g. with Hainan operating MAN-PEK, no other Chinese airline can operate that route).

Could someone please explain the logic behind that?

Clearly if two airlines start a route at the same time, it could provide too much capacity, meaning both airlines struggle and pull out, again leaving the route unserved. But equally with just one airline operating a route, it gives them pretty much a complete monopoly over that route.

You have it in the last line - The Chinese airline industry contains a large amount of smoke and mirrors - It's not a competitive western business model in the main - The CAAC retains a heavy hand in operations and the big four remain mainly regional branches of the relevant national and local government agencies.

The CAAC have a record of forced mergers and consolidations in the domestic airline industry where companies are seen to over perform !

Only Hainan is really a commercial tool and even they are used by the state to project the policy of the State to some degree.
Don't be fooled by a multitude of colours.

On top of this Air China with the support of the central government engages in some battles with local governments over some international operations. The Central government generally will out and Air China is their preferred conduit for major and politically important routes.

Few things about the PRC businesses are all they seem behind the scenes.

 

[ethanegcc]

I think, apart from the above point, it is to encourage expansion from 'secondary' long-haul Chinese cities such as Hangzhou, Qingdao etc.

 

[ethanegcc]

Confirming the B787-9 operation in 3Q17: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38...-further-expands-manchester-capacity-in-3q17/

 

[User001]

Early appearance of a B787-9 tomorrow. B-7839, so, no pandas just yet.

 

[gonetech]

Changed to a 788 unfortunately.

 

[User001]

PEK-MAN on 13th July and MAN-PEK on 25th July has been completely block booked by Caissa travel for a tour group. The flights listed above are already 100% full.

 

[IanFarquharson]

PEK-MAN on 13th July and MAN-PEK on 25th July has been completely block booked by Caissa travel for a tour group. The flights listed above are already 100% full.

Caissa = the travel agent BHX signed a deal with for the series of chaters that were axed !

 

[User001]

That will be the same ones, but in all honesty, we knew this was going to happen.

 

[User001]

Hainan flights on MAN-PEK seem to be sold out until 8th, with only a few seats left on 8th, and only 6 seats left on 15th too.

 

[David_itl]

I wonder if that will tempt them into thinking of offering a daily service for a longer period?

 

[ethanegcc]

Certainly great to hear. Hoping to see some B787-9s soon.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Winter slot applications appear to indicate PEK continues at daily and also early signs that CAN will be served 3 per week although daily slots applied for. Interesting times ahead?

 

[ethanegcc]

Winter slot applications appear to indicate PEK continues at daily and also early signs that CAN will be served 3 per week although daily slots applied for. Interesting times ahead?

Hainan have been expanding European flights out of Guangzhou for a while (destinations such as Tel Aviv etc., which they already serve from Beijing). CAN is a great destination for MAN to have served - although Shanghai is the goal - and whilst I cant help thinking China Southern would have been the better option, if this comes to fruition I would be very pleased.

Daily Beijing year-round is another superb achievement.

I wonder if Guangzhou would be a similar departure time to Beijing (they align their PEK and PVG departures at BOS) or whether they would give us an evening departure to Asia...

 

[Dobbo]

From recollection, I think PVG is the best bet for MANs first evening departure to the Far East (unless SQ, CX or someone left field like KE or ANA surprise us).

Great to see HUs commitment. Wonder what lounge investment they'll make in the new T2...

 

[Aceshigh]

Great news. Just to have the HU year round daily would have been superb BUT an additional destination consolidates our position. Man chester really does have first mover advantage in a proven market.

I have said before that China is as big as Europe.

There is absolutely no reason why the template in one region should not work in another.

The only note of caution is the geo political state with N Korea.

I suspect the Chinese are just as apoplectic about N Korea as The US.

Lobbing ballistic missiles into the air "hoping" they will held East toward Alaska but not actually being certain is not a great scenario for long term aviation planning!

Hopefully the US And China will sabotage the whole project by stealth!

 

[User001]

The Hainan flight stopped off at Stockholm this morning to drop off some tour passengers.

It operated PEK-ARN as HU789, then operated ARN-MAN as HU727. It will operate MAN-PEK as the usual HU7904.