Route Development

[gulftraveller]

Loganair is used to operating from airports with few facilities. Airlines chase passengers and profit, not buildings. Even a premium operator like QR has operations around the world from airports with little infrastructure. I really hope LBA gets its new terminal, but it will not itself bring a queue of new operators. I do agree, though, that a route LBA-IOM should be a safe bet.

 

[alpha.alpha]

sorry @fight2win your talking out of your A** if that's the case then why do we have any airlines at all? Jet2, mega operations, KLM, Aer Lingus & we did have BA 3 massive names in the industry. All a lot more powerful / greater reputation then Loganair.. like I said if there is money to be made the airlines will operate. & as gulftraveller stated above, "Loganair is used to operating from airports with few facilities" don't they operate from a beach in Scotland..

 

[KARFA]

I think the point is with better facilities we may have more than Jet2 and KLM & Aer Lingus. Tbh that’s a pretty poor list of airlines compared to MAN, NCL, or LPL. Also as @fight2win notes, over the last few years it seems LPL/MME/MAN/NCL all seem to be adding new airlines and routes, and none for LBA. I share the frustration, is LBA invisible? Airlines very much do consider the facilities of the airport when looking to open routes.

Btw, if LBA does get a new terminal and we still can’t attract new business I think we should all give up!

 

[alpha.alpha]

My point is that the new terminal still doesn't guarantee a queue of airlines wanting to operating like people seem to think, will it help of course. maybe its the management? maybe its the owners not throwing cash at airlines to operate empty flights during the pandemic what's the point.. e.g. MME & DSA.. lets be honest, waste of effort, time and money. 2015 Tony Hallwood got ZB, BA, GR & TUI base in with quick succession, could it be the management? there is just about nowhere to fly to at the moment, airlines are not willing to invest in new routes they are not certain about, hence why nearly all are retreating into what they know/makes money.

 

[KARFA]

You are right, travel is difficult. However it isn’t true all airlines are retreating, and we have seen airlines announce new routes over the last 8-9 months for airports in the north. The recent announcements are what has prompted this discussion after all. None for LBA tho - and tbh it was the same routine prior to COVID.

Will having a new terminal automatically change that on its own? No. But clearly it will be an issue when airlines look to start new routes. The current terminal is a problem, and perhaps a new terminal with better up to date facilities starts to push that balance in the right direction to the extent that LBA does start to prosper a bit more.

 

[Nethercote2019]

All I would say is you do sometimes need to spend £ to accumulate £ .....Birmingham spent a fortune on runway extensions few years back & has had no additional flights because of it

 

[jason1-11]

The simple reason LBA has underperformed commensurate with its catchment area and wealth profile can be summed up in 3:

• Lack of investment
• Location
• The magnetism that Manchester Airport has on the Yorkshire travelling population

 

[tonysmith]

You are correct about location I was speaking with a pilot on holiday a few years ago and he said it’s in the wrong place

 

[alpha.alpha]

The terminal development is the best opportunity LBA has most likely ever had and will have, its a no brainer and they need to crack on with it. the terminal will help attract more airlines. you are right KARFA, LBA does seem to getting missed out by other airlines, it would be interesting to see what the management have to say about this.

 

[LBA4EVER]

sorry @fight2win your talking out of your A** if that's the case then why do we have any airlines at all? Jet2, mega operations, KLM, Aer Lingus & we did have BA 3 massive names in the industry. All a lot more powerful / greater reputation then Loganair.. like I said if there is money to be made the airlines will operate. & as gulftraveller stated above, "Loganair is used to operating from airports with few facilities" don't they operate from a beach in Scotland..

First off im not talking out my a****! lol yes we do have a mega jet2 operation and aer lingus, klm and the like here but im sure we all agree the airport can do so much better, a hell of a lot better in fact esp with our huge population,

 

[LBA4EVER]

I think the point is with better facilities we may have more than Jet2 and KLM & Aer Lingus. Tbh that’s a pretty poor list of airlines compared to MAN, NCL, or LPL. Also as @fight2win notes, over the last few years it seems LPL/MME/MAN/NCL all seem to be adding new airlines and routes, and none for LBA. I share the frustration, is LBA invisible? Airlines very much do consider the facilities of the airport when looking to open routes.

Btw, if LBA does get a new terminal and we still can’t attract new business I think we should all give up!

exactly karfa thankyou! all these new routes and airlines starting services from all the other northern airports but lba gets nowt, its now or never regarding the terminal, if LCC reject this new terminal then nothing will ever really change

 

[LBA4EVER]

The terminal development is the best opportunity LBA has most likely ever had and will have, its a no brainer and they need to crack on with it. the terminal will help attract more airlines. you are right KARFA, LBA does seem to getting missed out by other airlines, it would be interesting to see what the management have to say about this.

agree with you there mr the terminal dev is the best opportunity for LBA to grow, and once it does grow then the airport will be looked at in a different way.

 

[White Heather]

LBA management have said already that they want to attract other airlines to the airport, but ones that are not so much leisure airlines. They want more flights to European Capital Cities - and ideally one or two major carriers. They have already said too that they want a service direct to the Middle East. However - they have made it very clear that with the current terminal facilities, they have no chance of attracting any of these premium carriers, not necessarily just because the terminal is 56 years old and past it, but because the facilities it has do not allow LBA to provide the levels of service that the carriers expect and demand. In addition, in normal times, the terminal spends much of its time operating at absolute capacity, dealing with what we have now. There isn't the space or facilities to handle more aircraft. Yes, there are quiet times, but the airport cannot dictate to these airlines that they turn up at the quiet times of day - the reality is that most airlines, if not all, will want to arrive in the morning, late afternoon or early evening - which are the exact times of day when the terminal is rammed.

The airport MD told the Airport Consultative Committee that he would love a certain airline (which I will not name) at LBA, with a base here, but there is absolutely no chance without the terminal, and the same applies to other 'nice to have' operations such as Turkish Airlines, a direct route again to Pakistan, definitely the Middle East routes, and definitely anything going over the Atlantic. I don't think that the terminal would prevent a relatively low volume Loganair route though, and as has been stated, they operate into places that barely have a terminal at all.

It seemed pretty clear to me that certain airlines had given indications of an definite interest in flying into LBA if the terminal is built. There was no indication that LBAs owners were throwing £150m at a new terminal just in the hope of attracting other carriers. That of course, was pre Covid. However, their position remains that the terminal is viable - although reaching the magic 7m passengers per year will now take longer. After the first lockdown, the 2030 date had slid back to 2032. I would imagine that the further lockdowns may well push that back even further, although clearly any new terminal will not now be built by the original date of 2023. Leeds City Council and the group that shall not be mentioned have made sure of that.

 

[a300boy]

Lets get the terminal built and see what happens !
We need a good route development manager who can negotiate with the airlines.
The one we had in the past did that very well but often the routes did not last so that is up to the punters as Karfa has said on our Ba service.
No bums on seats no services available ! not rocket science is it ?

 

[Superleeds123]

LBA management have said already that they want to attract other airlines to the airport, but ones that are not so much leisure airlines. They want more flights to European Capital Cities - and ideally one or two major carriers. They have already said too that they want a service direct to the Middle East. However - they have made it very clear that with the current terminal facilities, they have no chance of attracting any of these premium carriers, not necessarily just because the terminal is 56 years old and past it, but because the facilities it has do not allow LBA to provide the levels of service that the carriers expect and demand. In addition, in normal times, the terminal spends much of its time operating at absolute capacity, dealing with what we have now. There isn't the space or facilities to handle more aircraft. Yes, there are quiet times, but the airport cannot dictate to these airlines that they turn up at the quiet times of day - the reality is that most airlines, if not all, will want to arrive in the morning, late afternoon or early evening - which are the exact times of day when the terminal is rammed.

The airport MD told the Airport Consultative Committee that he would love a certain airline (which I will not name) at LBA, with a base here, but there is absolutely no chance without the terminal, and the same applies to other 'nice to have' operations such as Turkish Airlines, a direct route again to Pakistan, definitely the Middle East routes, and definitely anything going over the Atlantic. I don't think that the terminal would prevent a relatively low volume Loganair route though, and as has been stated, they operate into places that barely have a terminal at all.

It seemed pretty clear to me that certain airlines had given indications of an definite interest in flying into LBA if the terminal is built. There was no indication that LBAs owners were throwing £150m at a new terminal just in the hope of attracting other carriers. That of course, was pre Covid. However, their position remains that the terminal is viable - although reaching the magic 7m passengers per year will now take longer. After the first lockdown, the 2030 date had slid back to 2032. I would imagine that the further lockdowns may well push that back even further, although clearly any new terminal will not now be built by the original date of 2023. Leeds City Council and the group that shall not be mentioned have made sure of that.

Completely agree WH.

It’s probably worth remembering that we got Belfast and Newquay back last year, with Skiathos and Santorini to come in 2021.

Just out of interest WH we haven’t had an update from a meeting in quite a while. When is the next one due please?

 

[White Heather]

Completely agree WH.

It’s probably worth remembering that we got Belfast and Newquay back last year, with Skiathos and Santorini to come in 2021.

Just out of interest WH we haven’t had an update from a meeting in quite a while. When is the next one due please?

March. The last one was cancelled as there was nothing much to report in view of the situation the airport finds itself in.

 

[Finger66]

We know MME are throwing money at airlines and suspect DSA doing similar with Wizz. What airline in their right mind is going to refuse that in the current climate. Once that money dries up and the routes remain unprofitable those airlines will be off just as quick as they arrived. LBA more interested in using money on infrastructure so that a healthy catchment area can do its own talking in the future. Without the new terminal LBA may have to resort to MME tactics so if LCC don’t see the economic sense in approving this then yes we may all as well give up. This has to be a no brainier when the economy is crying out for jobs and investment. The capacity and appeal for new airlines will then be there

 

[Superleeds123]

We know MME are throwing money at airlines and suspect DSA doing similar with Wizz. What airline in their right mind is going to refuse that in the current climate. Once that money dries up and the routes remain unprofitable those airlines will be off just as quick as they arrived. LBA more interested in using money on infrastructure so that a healthy catchment area can do its own talking in the future. Without the new terminal LBA may have to resort to MME tactics so if LCC don’t see the economic sense in approving this then yes we may all as well give up. This has to be a no brainier when the economy is crying out for jobs and investment. The capacity and appeal for new airlines will then be there

Spot on.

I worry that the council is ramping up its rhetoric on the climate, especially around transportation. I saw an article in the local rag yesterday about making Leeds car free by 2030. It’s beggars belief that they think this is even remotely possible and that people will accept it.

Anyway, back to route development. Do we feel that we will see any new routes in the near future?

 

[Finger66]

I think the answer to that is there are routes we should see. E.g. LHR returning, BRU, FRA, MUC but whether we see them this side of any new terminal is another thing. Also AF on CDG would be great. Plus poss ORK and IOM. Beyond that I think anything is a long way off unless new leisure routes

 

[AirBingley]

Loganair have now put on sale LHR from MME and secured code share with a number of airlines including BA. I don’t see T3 hanging around too long on that route! The flights are twice per day. Surely LBA must be talking to airlines given BA were carrying 8000 PAX a month!